Official Countach Value Thread | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Official Countach Value Thread

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by Peter K., Feb 17, 2012.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I am guilty of comparing what is happening in the Ferrari market with the Lamborghini market, but with good reason. The reason is, so much more business actually occurs with much less grief (!!) in the Ferrari market simply because the market is more defined and buyers & sellers have reasonable expectations. We all want the most when we sell, and we all want to pay the least when we buy, but we are in danger of creating a Lamborghini market that people avoid altogether because collectors cant make any sense of it. In my case, 90% of my Lamborghini buyers are principally Ferrari & Porsche collectors who just want 1 or 2 choice Lamborghinis. Generally they are very astute people who can tell when the numbers just don't make any sense.

    Case in point: the gentleman who was going to buy the aforementioned QV (worth 140k IMO with those miles), got so thoroughly pissed off with the shenanigans of the seller that he bought a Ferrari Daytona (#16571) instead via myself on Monday, spending more than double ($390k actually), bought & paid in cash, done deal. Who is the loser here? The Lamborghini market..... I rest my case. We have to get organized and we have to get real. Meanwhile Ferrari Supercars (GTO/F40/F50/Enzo) continue to sell like hotcakes in a very defined market
     
  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, that is why there is a RANGE: $100,000 to $175,000.

    The good, the bad & the ugly will fit nicely in there.
     
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh I don't think its that important. Just a place to come and throw out some numbers for comparison.

    The thing for everyone to remember about a thread like this is that the numbers will be different for each individual's experiences or point of view. Buyers & sellers can strike a happy medium and draw their own conclusions as applicable to their own circumstances.
     
  4. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

    Oct 26, 2006
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    LP400 - $300,000 to $500,000 Agreed

    LP400S S1 - $250,000 to $450,000 Agreed

    LP400S S2 - $150,000 to $225,000... I think: $150,000 to $300,000 (I offered $285K for Jeff's red S2 in Florida, he passed)

    LP400S S3 - $100,000 to $150,000 Agreed

    LP500S - $100,000 to $150,000 Agreed

    LP500QV FI - $75,000 to $125,000 Agreed

    LP500QV DD - $125,000 to $175,000... I think: $150,000 - $225,000

    ANNIVESARIO - $100,000 to $175,000...I think: $95,000-$135,000 (mint no-miles cars available for $125K all day long)



     
  5. ApexOversteer

    ApexOversteer F1 Veteran

    Feb 15, 2007
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    Really? A perfect S2 less than a needy S1?
     
  6. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    I guess the masses are speaking..I agree with Geno, I think Joe's price on a DD is under value..the last two DD cars I helped in were both over 200K..and the last S2 I did was 210K...of course in full disclosure I have 2 DD cars inbound as well as a S1 and a S2 car..and IT is way different when the Dealer OWNS the cars instead of just facilitating a "Broker" deal to make a set "commission" on the sale.
     
  7. LC3929

    LC3929 Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2007
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    +1

    Victor I sent a pm to you some days ago, probably you didn't see it. Please have a look at your pm box and send me an answer.
     
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    As Gene suggests, perhaps a perfect S2 should bring more. BUT, I'm yet to see it actually happen. Talk, interest, and offers turned down are one thing. A sale completed is another.
     
  9. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #34 Albert-LP, Feb 18, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012

    yes, i completely agree and those are selling prices, not asking prices.


    here below the Italian asked prices (i personally saw all these cars) EURO money:

    400: i did not even see one as i cannot pay the 350 k they ask

    400 S1: they are are unfindable here, i could not find any

    400 S2: 180 k for an USA spec car with changed outside color, true very low miles but a lot of oil leaks (add 30-40 K euro to fix engine and restore the color, car HAS to be in the factory color in my opinion)

    400S3: 160 K for a very good american spec true low miles car
    185 K for a fully restored car with some restoring errors
    130 K for a car that needs 30-40 K of work

    5000S: 165 k for a very good car 100% OEM true low miles

    QVDD: 206 K for an outstanding red car, true 100% oem and very low miles, perfect

    25th: 120-130 k, many cars, some very good.


    Number of owners: who cares, look and inspect the car, it's more important how the car has been restored or mantained.

    I think prices will go up a for long time again: Countach is the most outrageous car ever built and Lamborghini every year improve its brand due to big money VAG owner put in it, producing fantastic cars like the LP700 so the value of Countach will raise like Lamborghini brand will do: i think Countach prices and Lamborghini brand appeal are linked each other.
    Lamborghini brand appeal is going up, the same will do Countach prices.

    Do not be stupid like me (i just want a 101% perfect and original car so i spent an impressive amount of money to make it shine in every piece), save money with the restore and you will earn a lot of money with Countach.


    ciao
     
  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Geno, very helpful. I think the Annivesarios you've seen are within the range. The QV DD is the 2nd most prolifically produced Countach after the Annivesario and disparity between what owners think they are worth and what buyers think they are worth is just too wide. But its important to note what owners think they are worth. Your stated range is not far off.
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Respectfully: it makes no difference to the perceived value of a car if it is being sold privately by an owner, being sold by a dealer such as yourself, being sold by a broker/facilitator such as myself, or being sold at auction. The car is what it is, the method of disposition doesn't change its value. Fair value range is the same. Purchase circumstances & costs are different, and the method of acquisition by the buyer is his/her choice to pursue or not. 9 times out of 10 for cars as rare as the Countach, the disposition of an available car that is desired is purely luck of the draw if the buyer wants a particular car. Why owners sell privately, use dealers like you, use specialists like me, or send them to auction is a topic for another venue.

    As for QV DD values, so, we dont concur. But, that's the point of a thread like this. It allows intelligent discussion so interested parties can draw their own conclusion. Just because I sell car A at price B doesn't mean the general public's perceived view of said car's value corresponds with the price I achieved. By and large buyers will pay what they are comfortable paying and in this market they do their due-diligence better than ever before.
     
  12. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    OK, maybe it's just me Joe..but now I am really confused..probably due to me not graduating High School and no UK education as you.........

    So early you say DD car 125-175...but now you agree with Geno and say he is "close" at
    150-225..last I looked...175-225K is 50K apart...and since we KNOW for a fact that the last two (2) DD cars, both GREAT cars traded for beyond the 200K mark..I can only assume the 200K plus mark is correct..

    OR do you have more 89 Anniversary cars to sell/unload then DD cars in your current "broker" self serving inventory..?? After all, every one thinks your 125-175k is WAY OFF the mark considering what is currenlty advertised "asking" prices for a LOW mile PERFECT 89 car in the 125K range..??????????
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Again, the point of this thread is not to make others agree with your view, but simply state where you think the numbers are, so "correct" will be different for different people and a comfort level can be established individually. I have no Annivesarios in inventory although I know of a good one that can be bought circa $130k.

    Best,
     
  14. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    ALL understood..however one thing you fail to understand, which is just plain sense..a "broker" or "expert" as you want to relate to your self has one and only one intrest in the sale of a car...his "piece of pie". He has no STAKE in the final out come of the sale, there is no "risk" to make it right, there is no "risk" of his OWN money, push comes to shove, the only "risk" is the commission to "arrange" the transaction. A "broker" still can easily walk away and leave the un-resolved issues up to the buyer and the seller, where a vested intrest party as a "Dealer", like me, has to make sure the transaction is good on all 4 corners...if not, it comes completely on "the Dealers" shoulder..no walking away from it as a "middle man" broker.

    Dont get me wrong, there is a place for "brokers", but the risk and investment for a broker is with out question a far less investment then the commitment of a "Dealer" owned car in question. This may be why the old saying of "you get what you pay for" is so true to hear.
    Till the "cows come home" a VESTED intrest of a seller to a buyer is far greater when their
    "cookies" are on the chopping block..in Legal stance as well as invested intrest, no question about it.
     
  15. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    And, again I "respectfully" dis-agree with you..as I have available TWO 89 cars, both in excellent conditon, both WELL under 2000 miles, available today for the price of UNDER $125K..so unless it is the one of one Silver car for $130K..IMO a buyer is "over-paying" at that price for a 89 or 90 Anniversary car.

    Maybe, as you state, the value's will increase. I am sure they will, but TODAY, there is no 89-90 car worth over 130K, nor the 175K top range as you suggest. IMO and my experiance in the last 4 months.
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    In California any licensed dealer is held to the same accountable standard whether they are wholesaling, dealing or brokering. Of course ownership of the car (we do this as well on occasion) means increased risk, but, again, that has no bearing on the car's value - which is what this thread is about. The thread is for a discussion on what these cars are worth, as seen from the viewpoint of owners, enthusiasts, and people in the trade. All participants that result in supporting a market have a legitimate viewpoint, and its bound to be different depending on who is looking at it.
     
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    My bottom estimate is $100k for an Annivesario. That easily accommodates the $125k cars you are suggesting, so I actually think we are on the same page. On this thread I think all viewpoints have legitimacy but dont need to necessarily agree.

    My top estimate was because of the silver car, and is purely the top of a RANGE.
     
  18. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    Well then, I agree and owe you an "apology". I was not aware that you or "we" (would like to know who WE is) is a duly licensed, insured, acredited or fully bonded licensed "Dealer" in the State of California, or any other State for the matter.

    I think it would do you, and all that deal with you, a great service to post your State Dealers License as well as your bond...after all that is a "Plus" to any and all buyers for their piece of mind...you should be proud to have it and make sure all know of it..as with California and all other states, it is not a "cake walk" to obtain such valued accreditation!

    Congrats in advance to having such a License..it speaks to your commitment to the buying public and thier security in knowing they are Dealing with a bona fide State/Goverment approved provider with protection unde the Federal Consumer Protection Acts.
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    No apology needed! I have both wholesale dealer & autobroker licenses, fully bonded. It has been posted on the front page of my website for the past four (4) years at least. FWIW, I too own quite a few of the cars I sell. To me, "we" only means my partner & wife. I don't answer to anyone else :) Lastly, if this thread has helps the market to become even a fraction as defined as the Ferrari market I operate in is, we all have good things ahead.
     
  20. topcarbon

    topcarbon F1 Rookie
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    well, Im finding this info helpful.

    thanks guys.

    now I only need to find the right car.
     
  21. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2006
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    the market in Europe for these cars is quite different than that for the older variants

    for most european buyers the 25th design is too "busy" while the LP400 is a design masterpiece
    all the cars in the middle (with the exception of FI cars....european buyer does not like the FI ones as they are not "our" countach ) are good looking cars, very agressive with appeal but the anniversarios are a bit... "over the top".
    the "luxurious" interior is not percieved as a good thing also, because it is not in line with the spirit of the countach

    add that you can find good annis for sale in most european countries, while it is hard to find any older one in great shap for sale and i do not see them worth over 115k euro for a VERY nice low miles one

    they are not much ...in demand now

    they were THE countach to have years ago thoug
     
  22. LC3929

    LC3929 Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2007
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    .. and please add $100k for Blu Pietro Speciale
     
  23. RPMMarcus

    RPMMarcus Karting

    Feb 18, 2012
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    Hello, i am new on this forum, wow 500k, 1.000.000, I don't understand it, seems to be a very special car, also don't understand the extra money of the colour, is this a special ordered car by a prince or some prototipo? Do you have pictures?

    Thanks Marcus
     
  24. Mr Mezzanotte

    Mr Mezzanotte Formula Junior

    Aug 22, 2006
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    so why is nobody converting Anniversary's back to 1987 QV looks ?
    or even early QV/S looks ?
    or go one step further to LP400 looks ?

    or hasn't that occurred to anyone yet ?

    if the early cars (LP400) were upgraded to S looks, why not go vice versa ?

    or is originality now king ?
     
  25. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie
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    Please, exactly like Joe said....not to make others agree. It's about thought, views, experience, discussion, and asking each other questions.
     

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