991 GT3 revealed: PDK only, 9000 rpm/485 hp etc. | Page 2 | FerrariChat

991 GT3 revealed: PDK only, 9000 rpm/485 hp etc.

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by DriveAfterDark, Mar 4, 2013.

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  1. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Amongst DRIVERS the WE is not a minority. We can see that BMW made a stick M5 to satisfy that minority. My local Fcar dealer has told me of any number of 458 sales that did not take place because its flappy paddle only. We know a 430 with stick fetches a 15% premium.

    As soon as FI could funtion with the same or better performance than carb there was no issue. The first FI cars had flat cams compred to their carb models because the bosch unit could not take high lift and were therefore inferior performance wise. There is no end of conversion for early FI porches to carbs or EFI for this reason. Look at the performance drop when the 308 went to FI.

    Now when it comes to driving pleasure, I have no problem with EPS per se, its just that the current units detract from the driving pleasure, especialy in a rear engined porche part of whose appeal was that live steering feel. Removing the clutch and a riflebolt stick, once again further removes interaction with the car, all done in the name of performance and efficiency. Yet what is lost is driving pleasure, and if ultimate performance is all that counts i can just go for a GTR.

    Remember that old BMW slogan, the ultimate driving machine, we are now in the era of the ultimate machine which can be programed to drive faster.

    Yes a PDK does two things. It opens up the product to a wider audience, and it provides statisticaly faster accleration. So yes you can now have your GT3 as an everyday driver, it will pootle around in traffic just like any hyundai. But what is lost int he process is a true sportscar. Now we have a machine which can be commanded to perform tricks, it can go round a track faster, but it can only speak to you in a very muted way, and I will bet it wont meld with you.

    There is a reason why an AT or PDK motorcycle has never suceeded. Those who ride bikes do so for the experience and joy of the ride. In fact most motorcycles models are made for the experience of the ride not ultimate raw performance.

    in this era of performance cars whose very objective numbers exceed even the best drivers ability on the street, and most drivers ability on the track, why not make funtional yet emotive machines that are superlatively fast yet also fun to drive, a machine that is an extension of your body, as opposed to a computer keyboard ride in the form of a wheel and two pedals.

    the futire will prove me correct. High performace sports cars will slowly die out as distinct models as they will offer little over the hot versions of regular cars. Only when that tactility is brought back will they see renewed growth. Ferrari may be immune to this because they have styling and dramam to partialy compensate. Porche has neither of these attributes.
     
  2. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    You have made your point comprehensively and well. Yet, per your final point, I don't fear for Porsche. The sad reality is they sell many more Panamera's and Cayenne's than 991 and Boxster and Cayman together. And, I suspect they will likely grown their audience with the new 991 line-up "net" (sure, they *may* lose a few fans of the brand, but - as you point out- they will gain some too). IMHO, their biggest risk to success is pricing. 911's have gotten *very* expensive over the past few years (sure, everything has, but...). If you meant they only have to fear losing sales of high performance models, well, I disagree with that too. Their approach of selling multiple flavors of each platform has proven to be a winner and they will continue to do so IMHO. Of course, one can color their efforts as "not high performance", but I suspect they still will.

    Final point, and its obviously a religion in that some folks can't comprehend a different view than their own, but I actually *like* paddle shifters *and* manual gearboxes.

    I thought I would hate a sports car with flappy paddles...until I owned one. Then I took a car like a scud and CS on the track and loved F1 boxes even more. And, I even like the shifting around town and on fun drives. Please understand, I still love manual gearboxes too. You see, its not religion nor some standard of "love or appreciation" for sports cars nor a "statement of skills" that I aspire to that requires me to appreciate manual gearboxes though...I just like 'em. And automated manuals. Kinda reminds me I like blondes and brunette's, librarians and bartenders, and...well, enough with that analogy :)
     
  3. 95Monster

    95Monster Rookie

    Mar 13, 2011
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    Being the owner of one of the last GT3's with a manual, I look forward to a great trade in value when I go for the new PDK equipped car.
     
  4. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    I remember when the Porsche racing community complained about ferrari having the sequential gearbox and Porsche still being a manual and how much laptime was lost by having to shift manually and take hands off steering wheel. I raced a 997 Cup in the Rolex series and the sequential box was a godsend.
    This PDK box is fantastic and will make the car even more of a track weapon.
     
  5. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    and Porsche still has that problem as many of the Grand Am GT cars are now paddle shift and the 997 is still sequential....
     
  6. ARTNNYC

    ARTNNYC F1 Rookie
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    the new GT Porsches will be paddle shift
     
  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    You make and clarify some great points. Yes Porche sells a lot of Caynnes and Panameras. They also sell multiple versions of the 991. So I see no reason to have blanded out the one pure raw car they still made, its not as if there are not multiple other choices in the Porche line. They blanded out and destroyed the turbo which was the hard core model, the GT3 happened almost by accident, they had to make a few for the road, then it was a sucess now its being ruined.

    As to paddle****, I am sure it has its place, and yes its faster especialy on atrack, and more comfortable on the street. But many of us drive on the street and track for fun and recreation, therefore an engaging car is more desireable. The GT3 was that car, and now but in name its gone.

    As for analogies here is another one maybe more apt. I like all women, but in bed I value a good or great lover, someone I can feel and who feels me, someone to meld with and ignite passion. I like the electricty of the touch and moment. On the other hand nothing is more dissapointing than taking that ultra hot women to bed and discovering that once into it we are dealing with some flappy paddles, if you get my drift.

    BTW my take on the sound synthesisers in may moderns is fake orgasms.
     
  8. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Ok I saw the video to the end. They claim its even more of an engaging drive. They are sensitive to the debate and claim to have the answers. Lets see what the roadt testers say.
     
  9. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    agree.

    Not everyone is trying to shave a 1/10 of a second on a track gig.

    I will always love manual transmissions.
     
  10. Finlander

    Finlander Formula 3
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    This new PDK seems pretty trick....the way I'm understanding it is you can "pop the clutch" so to speak?

    I look forward to Chris Harris' review.
     
  11. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

    Jan 1, 2007
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    He'll be THE guy for this review. The man lives for lightweight 911s. He is very much to blame for my recent aircooled 911 RS obsession (the 964).
     
  12. Finlander

    Finlander Formula 3
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    Funny you mention this....I've been doing the same recently....helluva car...I want one!
     
  13. RareAir23

    RareAir23 Formula Junior

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    Looks great. Can;t wait for the RS.
     
  14. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    I submit that if they had retained a manual gearbox for this GT3, it really should have been the six speed rather than the seven.

    The super-overdrive seventh is outside this car's mission and is superfluous. It would just mess up the shift pattern.
     
  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I was being sarcastic.

    Love the manual all you want. They just don't have a place in the modern world.
     
  16. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    I tried to like flappy paddles until I owned a Maserati, BMW, Ferrari & Lamborghini that had them. I am not modern I am old and those things are not for me. I am one of those who thinks the last Ferrari was a 430. To each his own but whenever I see paddles the first thing that comes to my mind is they must want to sell to people who cannot drive a stick. sorry but that is what I think. I even put a 458 turned into a manual in Mr. Breeze I hope they leave that part in in the film!
     
  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Lets put it this way. 10 years from now the 014 GT3 will be s used car, with so many epensive electrical bits to put right that it wont be worth it. Its performance will also be eclipsed by newer metal.

    Wheras any 07-11 GT3 will be hailed as one of the greats, ala 2.7 RS, they type of car thye dont make anyomre but should.

    That means for drivers, collectors car buffs etc the late GT3 is one awesome machine, a classic already, whereas the new GT3 is likely to be just another newer faster car, but really less interesting or pleasurable to own and drive. Its not just about the paddleshift.

    Engineers always find a way to add this or thsat to make something faster. What has been lost is the original core mission. A bare bones stripped back car, directly linked to a race car. The modern equivalent of a 250SWB. What we have int he new GT3 is really just a much faster more nimble and harder Carrera.

    A slightly "slower" but more viceral machine would have floated my boat, something more honest without the doodads and under 3000lbs. Something durable ror track running without so many doodads to go wrong that running it at the track would be financialy ruinous, something simple and solid enough to last being used as these cars should for years without having all kinds of things go wrong, or to worry about. Somehting that when driven on the street at 6/10ths is a pure unadulterated joy to drive because everything works as it should and there is a constant communication between machine and drive. In other words a GT3, a car wich was never the fastest, but was more than fast enough, and sold on its many virtues, the type of virtues so many moderns lack.

    They then could have sold whatever this new GT3 is as a Gt4 which matches its video game pedigree and would seem better to the poseur crowd because it is a Gt4 which is more than a 3, and the print says its faster.

    I think part of the issue here, and its evident in the video is that the 997 GT3 really was a specialist item, and they had trouble producing them in any volume, so the new car can go down the regular production line, because well, its really just a faster regular production item, like the turbo.

    Will be faster, undoubtableywill, it have the magic, I seriously question that. WEe already know that the 991 carrrera great car as it is, has lost the magic.
    What magic there is will be enhgineered in ersatz.
     
  18. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

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  19. TheBigEasy

    TheBigEasy F1 World Champ
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    Well they're trying their very best to sell it that way....

    I guess the F430 Scud was pretty raw, and that used flappy paddles.
     
  20. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Cheaper to build too, and you can charge more for the car.
     
  21. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

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    Yes, this is the same company that charges more for the hard top, Cayman, than the vert, Boxster. LOL
     
  22. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

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  23. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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  24. kosmo

    kosmo Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2008
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    the gt3 will have Rear wheel steering
     
  25. kosmo

    kosmo Formula 3

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    yup and lets burn the Dinos while were at it.
     

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