Great pocture,and yes i would love to hear that chat,
I dont think anyone buys a DD because they think they can outrun an FI, or vice versa. If you want to understand peoples fascination with the DD configuration I posed a possible motive, it being a uniquely designed carb'd engine for the street. It just happens to be in a Countach making it even better...... Or maybe it has to do with induction noises, or the throttle linkages clickety clacking about as you row through the gears. The mechanicalness of it all is pretty dramatic car stuff no exhaust can replicate or replace. I did see that video the other day and thought exactly this, "what a great sounding and looking car!" It is what it is, but in the end yes they are both, "Countach!"
built in 2 weeks cycles in December 1985 when I visited - US FI cars for 2 weeks, then Carb cars for 2 weeks. Scary thing was it was young girls doing the electrical wiring, whilst the men did the heavyweight tasks. At the time, I think carbs was seen as the way the car was designed, FI with cats was necessary to meet US regulations, and make more cars, keeping the factory in business
It would be interesting to know what is up with the black fuel injected model they are standing next to. Notice the strange air outlets and the intakes look longer than the normal cars. Mike
When I spoke to factory owner (1980-1987) Patrick Mimran recently, this is exactly what he confirmed.
The factory themselves were fascinated with the DD configuration. There is a reason twice as many cars were built in the DD configuration, and there is a reason DD engines were not dropped when the factory FI configuration became available in 1986, nor was the DD engine dropped for the 25th Anniversario - in fact twice as many were made. There is a reason the Super Countach used a DD and not a FI, when both were available. There is a reason the FIA Homologation cars were DDs and not FIs, when both were available. The DD was the factory's own preferred choice, that much is as indisputable as the fact that the DD is both more powerful and a better performer. This affirmed to me by the very people responsible for both variants. If someone chooses not to believe the makers themselves, that's okay too, a Countach is a Countach - as everyone seems to be repeating! Engineer Luigi Marmiroli has given me some material which I will publish in the proper venue (upcoming issue of Octane magazine) putting to rest once-and-for-all that the power and performance superiority of the DD is not a myth. I think the thing to remember is that, just because people are enthusiastic about the DD does not mean they are disrespecting the FI! Personally, I am a huge fan of the FI engine, and I'm one of the first people to extol the virtues about the practicality of the FI engines on FChat. The ideal scenario is to get both! There is no need for FI owners to be insecure about the prowess of the DD engine, and in any case, by sheer volume of production numbers alone, twice as many Countach QV owners will tell you that the DD is the variant they covet, based on the understanding that people simply champion the cause of what they have and there are twice as many DDs. There is at least one person reading this who has both a FI & DD, and perhaps they will come on and share an un-biased opinion. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I dont think anyone who owns an F/I Countach feels insecure about a DD. I realize you want to hype the DD as much as possible as you will have one for sale ( like you did with the 25th Anniversary) . The conversation is simply about about the fact that EURO DD cars were free of emissions (catalytic converters) and that both motors make very similar power when in identical configuration. You provided dyno results to back up your claims, which I refuted that the sources you quoted were incorrect. Im certain that we could find quite a few F/I owners who would be willing to show real world results.
These are the air exhaust slats I was referring to. I've not seen these on an model Countach. Mike Image Unavailable, Please Login
I already sell Downdrafts whenever possible Cars | Joe Sackey Classics The Downdraft thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/lamborghinichat-com-sponsored-cats-exotics/503457-countach-downdraft.html was created as an enthusiasts resource, and it speaks for itself. If it is regarded only as 'hype' to cause the cars to be appreciated and values to ascend, I'm good with that, it means there will be a lot of happy Downdraft owners. As regards the Mimran Downdraft, Ive waited 30 years for a Lamborghini like this, and I wont make the same mistake I made 25 years ago by letting go of my first Downdraft! I hold it in higher regard than any of the Lamborghinis Ive owned with an interesting provenance, and that's saying something all those cars considered. Ive never owned a Lamborghini that was a personal car of the owner of the factory, someone whom Ive also been very fortunate to connect with. But a more practical reason for me keeping it is to use it as a rolling example of the restoration business we are now becoming involved in.
Was the factory really "fascinated" with the DD, or was it just cheaper to build without the FI, CATS, SMOG,BUMPERS, ECT ?? Did a FI car have a list price more, less or the same as a DD ? Was it cheaper for the factory to build a DD over a FI car ? Is the reason there are more DD than FI cars just a result that FI cars were built for a smaller portion of the planet "USA" and the rest of the CARB cars could be sold in many more countries and that's why there are more DD cars rather than a love of the DD cars by the factory ? Seems like a simple economics question as to the larger number of DD produced. Please don't get mad, not making any claims, just asking a question that I don't know the answer to.
Great question. You are correct, it was cheaper to build the DDs without all the ancillary components you mention, in all honesty. You are also correct that the reason the DDs are more prolific is because the markety that needed the FI was a smaller portion of the market. When I say the factory was fascinated by the DD engine, I am not focusing on the production cars where economics ruled as you correctly illustrate, but I'm really basing this on the reason the Super Countach used a DD and not a FI, when both were available, and the reason the FIA Homologation cars were DDs and not FIs, when both were available. IMO it comes down to the potency of the DD unit, and I'll be publishing some material in support of this notion soon.
This would make a reasonable person think it is a correct statement.....after all I am sure Lamborghini, regardless of who was in charge and owned it at the time, was there to make it produce a positive in the "Black" return.
Potency of the Dd engine was simply status qou,and the fact it had no cats or emission ,any further developement of this engine in order to gain power and reliabilitie would require fuel injection, they simpley used what they where set up for,and a quick way to get the car FIA papers being it requires a certain amount of cars buildt,The old saying"if it work dont change it" 3years later the Diablo came along with fuel injection,based on the countach engine architecture, the Super Countach was a last hurray to the old carb,with no intended future pla whatsoever, a fun project amongst the boys,perhaps with a few Future Diablo suspension bits and underpinnings in mind. Cool project, glad they did it,but there where no plans to bring a carburated engine inn to the 90s,
No doubt. The car is going to be amazing, and it is certainly a special example. Look forward to seeing it done.
Thank you. I'll be happy to share it with you & anyone interested, and happy to pass on any and all resources established in recent times.
