Ferrari 0855 Ellena | Page 9 | FerrariChat

Ferrari 0855 Ellena

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by enio45, Sep 23, 2014.

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  1. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    #201 enio45, Sep 21, 2016
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    I had to do some regressing on the exh today - it just seemed to hang too low, and i found out that I'm using the wrong hangers as well. I had 3 inches of clearance between the top of the muffler and the floor and from the side, it just did not look right. I was using the current version of the exh hangers when i should have been using the center pull type that Parker Hall sells. Coincidentally when going thru the exh hanger box today i unearthed 3 original hangers we took off the car - and bingo they were the center pull type (thanks chris c for the tip) .

    Ordered up 32 new center pull hangers for the exhaust and i believe they also are slightly shorter than the current ones today. So with that, we got new hangers coming, re-weld the tabs on the mufflers and position it accordingly. This will move everything up, give me 3/4 inch clearance at exhaust pipe at the rear frame for clearance and about 1 3/4 inches from the muffler to the floor area. Then we will be finishing up the front header pipe to get a little more bend.

    Lastly i temporarily installed the gas tank, clutch and brake peddle box to make sure we have appropriate clearance around the exhaust, and installed the oil fillers and dip stick on the motor to ensure they fit well thru the headers.
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  2. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    #202 enio45, Sep 21, 2016
    Those exh tips in post 199 (from el wayne) seem to be extended out about equal to where the bumper guards are protruding.

    Interesting in these pics, this is the 2nd car with rear bumper guards.
     
  3. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #203 John Vardanian, Sep 21, 2016
    Ed, you'll need two more hangers for the radiator. Also, I'm pretty sure the fasteners should be B/Ox.

    BTW, is the brake light switch new, if so where did you get it?

    john
     
  4. enio45

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    #204 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
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    John - thanks for thought - BUT, my car get the bracket that goes on the cam cover and the rod to the center of the radiator......keep me honest and keep the thoughts coming.
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  5. Ed Niles

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    #205 Ed Niles, Sep 22, 2016
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    Here's the only pure side view I could find; Boano, not Ellena. Sorry about the poor quality. One of my earliest purchases: 0605GT. (1961)
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  6. enio45

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    #206 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
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  7. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    #207 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
    More info from Ferrari Club of America Bulletin:



    - Delivered new to or first owner was Henry Gibson, New York, NY/USA. (Marcel
    Massini).

    - Offered 1971 in New York at 212-684-1978. Low mileage on rebuild. Paint
    so-so, new upholstery. (NYTimes 14 Feb 1971).

    - Offered 1974 by Mike Curley, Pittsburgh, PA. Very original interior. Body
    has one dent. Engine down for rebuild, gearbox just rebuilt. (FCA Jul
    1974).

    - Identified as 508C/128C single distributor in May 1975.
    - Identified May 1975 as a 250 GT Ellena Coupe.

    - Listed in 1975-1976 FOCUSA Rosters by Bradley E. Balles, San Francisco,
    CA/USA.

    - Listed in 1977-1979 FOCUSA Rosters by Candace Daniels, Mountain View,
    CA/USA.

    - Purchased by Ed Montini, Gilbert AZ from Daniels September, 2014
     
  8. enio45

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    #208 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
    Ed, thanks for the picture, looks like a real nice car....mufflers look to be about at the end of the bumper....
     
  9. enio45

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    #209 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Some interesting thing about my car that I have not been able to piece together - maybe someone can help.

    Ref the car - it had the fenders cut out on the sides for some reason, and the cutouts were done very nice, almost punched out....see pic below.

    Also - my car has a dual brake master cylinder setup, unlike some or most of the Ellena's that i have research and looked at have a single master cylinder.

    The brakes on the car are the vented drums unlike most others that are non-vented.

    I was told, but could never verify there is some race history with the car at Limerock.

    I thought i would share some of this in a effort to see if there is some info/connection that is known or available.

    Most intriguing is the cutouts on the side of the fenders. There was no cover or decorative trim that went with it, nor evidence of it either. Inside the inner fenders also had what seem to be some holes drilled to facilitate cooling.

    Appreciate any thoughts.....
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  10. enio45

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    #210 enio45, Sep 22, 2016
    John V - ref post 203

    The hardware - yes will be black oxide....i need to do that yet, in addition to shaving the head markings off the bolts.

    The brake switch - i sent it out and had it cad plated, fortunately no inside damage and when pressure applied i get continuity. It was an orig switch

    I see the ones today have the spade connectors -

    I might have another if you need one
     
  11. John Vardanian

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    #211 John Vardanian, Sep 22, 2016
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    Ed, thanks. I just got a brake light switch from GTO Engineering, though it has the spade connectors.

    My thoughts on the holes in the wings, if they were fitted originally they would have resembled the ones on the contemporary big sister car, which would have been the Series II 410SA.

    I have seen at least one other Elena with the vented drums--with the six hole pattern.

    john
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  12. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #212 PSk, Sep 23, 2016
    Dual brake master cylinders did not come out until the late 60's I believe on any cars.

    This could hint at racing modifications??, especially if split front and rear. Road cars are usually split right front to left rear, and left front to right rear (I believe).
    Pete
     
  13. enio45

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    #213 enio45, Sep 23, 2016
    Due to the fact that all the brake lines and mountings are orig to the car, the separation of the front to rear brakes via the double master cyl plus the 2 brake resevoir are orig to the
    cas as well I'm pretty sure that the system is orig to the car .

    Yes, this is where I'm going, why the modifications to the body - who did it......where?? I assume the holes on the inner fenders and the fender holes were for cooling for racing.

    Just don't have any proof yet and anyone recognize some of the ads back in the day?
     
  14. 375+

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    #214 375+, Sep 23, 2016
    Cadillac, AMC and Volvo had dual master cylinders in early 1960's; mandated in US from 1967.
     
  15. enio45

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    #215 enio45, Sep 23, 2016
    this system is one master cyl for the front and one for the back - I'm thinking very typical
    in the 57-58 era for TDF
     
  16. lancia

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    #216 lancia, Sep 23, 2016
    The twin parallel master cylinder set-up is I believe typical of 508B/508C chassis. See the inside-plug parts book, Tavola 24, for illustration. See also the 250GT inside-plug Owner's manual for a split circuit diagram. Note the twin reservoirs. 508D chassis uses a different master cylinder set-up for the drum brakes, but it too is twin circuit. In this case it is a single large unit with tandem pistons in-line, two inlets, two outlets, also fed from twin reservoirs. I believe it likely originates from a FIAT truck system. If you look very closely at a clean, glass-bead blasted original unit, you will find on one of the machined mounting bosses a faint little oval stamping with FIAT.

    Chris
     
  17. enio45

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    #217 enio45, Sep 23, 2016
    I will look for that - the question is why some cars have the system and some don't?

    All the Ellena's so far that i have seen DO NOT have the dual system nor the vented brakes.
     
  18. Fennicus

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    #218 Fennicus, Sep 23, 2016
    Hi,

    At first I thought you meant only Ferraris with "any cars". Every single 3.8L E-type Jaguar made had dual brake master cylinders from the factory, and they made almost 20.000 of them between 1961 and 1964 and most of them went to North America. It was split between front and rear, so you could adjust the balance.

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  19. PSk

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    #219 PSk, Sep 23, 2016
    Okay my dates are a bit off.


    Fennicus,

    Are you sure about the E-Type Jaguars? I say this because a common issue with the E-Type was overheating the rear brakes due to diff heat and this caused complete loss of brakes.

    I experienced this first hand and watched a once concours E-Type disappear into the distance for a very long time ... thankfully we were racing on an airfield and he had plenty of room to eventually stop the car. Note I do not actually know the reason for this brake failure.
    Pete
    ps: Alfa Romeos (my specialty area of interest) before the S2 1750GTV (such as mine) were single circuit ... the S2 came out in the '70s.
     
  20. Ed Niles

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    #220 Ed Niles, Sep 23, 2016
    1. The dark red car is a 410SA; not relevant.
    2. Bradley Balles is in the Dallas area; I'm sure he'd be delighted to hear from you. A real car guy.
     
  21. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    #221 enio45, Sep 23, 2016
    Ed, have been in touch with the Bradmundo the Magnificent !!

    One crazy man and yes he has been helpful with the car as well!!
     
  22. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #222 El Wayne, Sep 23, 2016
    Ed, I think John's point is that he doubts these fender vents are original. If the car had been originally fitted with fender vents, John feels they would have been done in the style of the 410 SA as opposed to the narrow, vertical, and unadorned design seen here.

    Nonetheless, I agree with you that the 410 SA is irrelevant to this discussion. A) It's highly unlikey 0855 or any of the Ellena-bodied 250 GTs left the Carrozzeria with fender vents, and B) Boano and Ellena implemented styling chages to make these cars less like Pinin Farina's original design. In my opinion, even if Ellena chose to add fender vents to one of his 250 GT coupes (again, unlikely), there's no way he would have borrowed and incorporated a prominant PF design element. Just my humble opinion, of course.
     
  23. Fennicus

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    #223 Fennicus, Sep 24, 2016
    Hi,

    Yes, I am sure. It is normally not the diff, but the brakes themselves that heat up so much that brake fluid boils in the rear circuit. The factory solved this with air ducts to be fitted in case racing was on the agenda and actually all Series 3 cars (V12) came from the factory with these air ducts to direct cool air to the rear calipers and discs. 3.8's had tandem twin master cylinders and 4.2's had a single brake master cylinder, but with two circuits, as did the later V12's. But only the 3.8 setup would allow you to adjust brake balance between front and rear. On the later ones you'd have to use some other method to control the balance, like Volvo did for the cars (like Amazon and P1800/1800S) where they had discs in the front and drums in the back.

    The most common reason for an E-type or any other IRS Jaguar rear brakes starting to smoke is the rear calipers sticking, usually due to a bad hose between the body and the IRS that allows pressure to build up. Some XJ's have had the trunk floor carpet catch fire due to this same problem. That hose can look ok on the outside but collapse on the inside and function as a "one-way valve." That hose costs ca. £10 GBP so sometimes I have a hard time understanding why someone would want to reuse a hose that "looked ok". :eek:

    Sorry for the side-trekking, we can continue in the "other cars" section if you like, I was just curious to see the similarieties in the hydraulic systems and brake light switch etc, even though the design was from the drum brake era. You have a great looking Ellena in the works, I am sure the process is as rewarding as the end result will be.

    Cheers,

    Pekka T.
    Fin.
     
  24. enio45

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    #224 enio45, Sep 24, 2016
    Thank you for the input regarding the fender cutouts etc......would be nice to get more info and history related to who did this while in their custody etc.

    My attempt was only to preserve the originality of the car, if indeed it was done at the factory for some reason..

    Not having any of that info available, as you can see we went with what we know as the original look on the fenders with no mods. I still have the other front end with the cutouts etc, will make for some nice garage art someday.
     
  25. El Wayne

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    #225 El Wayne, Sep 24, 2016
    Ed, a good thing about those unique fender vents is that they'll help us to identify 0855 in period photos. When I get a chance, I'll go through all of my unidentified Ellena pics and see if I have any showing a car with vents like these.
     
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