Official Countach Value Thread | Page 209 | FerrariChat

Official Countach Value Thread

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by Peter K., Feb 17, 2012.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Roy, honestly, I had no problem with you regarding the car, then or now.
     
  2. LABrit

    LABrit Karting

    Aug 13, 2006
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    Los Angeles
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Thank you Rich.

    There are MANY people who use my services who read but don't post so I appreciate it when the truth is shared.

    As for moving on, I'm perfectly fine if Josh wishes to continue to show the world who he truly is.
     
  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #5204 joe sackey, Apr 11, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2017
    Exactly.

    All Josh has accomplished is to show himself up for the malicious liar that he is.
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Erroneous reputation? You have zero reputation in the Lamborghini world, at least I have one! A solid, much-accomplished, well-established and well-respected one. You on the other hand? Not-so-much.

    Please feel free to post the thread all you want, its been here for two years already and proven to be worth absolutely zero, it only a mirror-reflection which makes you look like a bitter cry-baby.

    You think someone's going to read the thread and all-of-a-sudden conclude anything besides that fact that Josh is a malicious liar?

    Oh please.
     
  6. Ciro Izzo

    Ciro Izzo Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 18, 2005
    370
    Both Joe and Roy serve a important role in delivering cars to this community.

    They both have different styles but in the end you should always do due diligence when purchasing a valuable item like this. Not really a big deal, the arguing back-and-forth sure doesn't do us any good.

    There is obviously a heated debate as to what is wrong and right, which models are more valuable than the other but in the end it's all what you want. Who cares what anyone else thinks.

    We are talking about one of the most influential cars of all time and we all should be proud to be a part of this and leave the whining, complaining and insults behind.

    Thanks Roy and Joe for helping dreams come true and as far as I'm concerned, neither of you has to prove anything to anyone.
     
  7. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    Roy L. Cats
    Thanks for the kind words.
     
  8. #5208 EarlyCat, Apr 11, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    They looked like drunk posts. I didn't read the earlier pages, because I just got back in town & am catching up with things. Joe didn't come crying to me btw. Any further posts (by anyone) on the Josh/Joe topic will need to be addressed in your thread Lamborghinis not at auction. It's time to get back to the cars.

    So before we go back on topic here is a few pictures I took on Bourbon Street 2 weeks ago on a sat evening.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie

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    Thank you!

    Too bad I didn't know you were coming down to NOLA. Would have been nice to meet.
     
  10. Did your ears itch? I thought about you when I was there. Lol.
     
  11. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie

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    Haha. My cars are an hour outside of the city, but would be happy to show you if you are here again.
     
  12. Thank you!
     
  13. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie

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    #5213 cnpapa24, Apr 14, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017

    Looking at these quotes from Joe from 5 years ago, I think this still holds true today for the Countach market. Understanding and valuing different Countach variants can be difficult for someone not well versed in the Countach and this alone can cause the market to be less prolific than say the F40 market or 288 GTO market where it is more cut and dry. As Countach owners and enthusiasts, we would all be doing potential buyers and enthusiasts (and ourselves) a service by providing clear information so that people have confidence in the market based on facts and not what someone wishes things to be. Only then will the Countach reach its true potential. While I consider myself more of a student of the market than a Professor, I do try to study it closely and see so many cars on the market incorrectly priced for today's market, often priced at the top end of the range which in reality is relevant only for highly original, well preserved cars and properly restored (nut and bolt) cars. This is not a slight on cars that don't fall in that description, but just a fact of the market.
     
  14. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 1, 2002
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    Love Nawlins.



    Pat O' Brien's Irish Bar - Hurricane.

    Café Du monde - beignets.
     
  15. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    5 years seems like a lifetime ago and I had forgotten all about those posts, but I think they are still relevant today.

    The good news today is the complex Countach market is becoming better understood especially by those with the means to influence it.
     
  16. LC3929

    LC3929 Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2007
    786
    So true.
     
  17. jb21

    jb21 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    144
    Agree with that wholeheartedly...read this in the Road Scholars magazine last month, related to Porsche cars but actually it fits across all makes. Not pulling punches, but makes a good read.

    I certainly wouldn't have bought my Countach without advice on provenance (thanks, Joe) and a thumbs up inspection on condition and originality from a world expert (thanks, VB).

    I have no problem buying a car to restore and paying for the work. I quite like the process these days. But only if I get in at a price that reflects reality. I learned that the hard way some years ago. You won't easily be able to hide that "expensive restoration project" from buyers who are making use of the great resources that exist and are doing their homework.

    Enjoy...

    My Two Cents Worth - Road Scholars

    "My Two Cents Worth

    Written by Kevin Watts

    All things Porsche have had an incredible seven-year run-up in prices, with some really great cars finally starting to level out and even drop in price. We’ve seen this in the auctions during the first quarter of 2017. There are many reasons causing this so let’s try to sort this out.

    The first reason cars are hitting the market is obvious: Panic! The sky is falling!

    Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dumb bought cars they didn’t love strictly for the purpose of making money because they spent too much time listening to all the blog “experts” out there. Oops! Bad idea!

    Second, they bought average cars.

    Every price guide is based on what? Average cars! An average car is up-to-date in service year-after-year, and it has tires less than six years old. In the collector car world in all appearances, a car like this looks exceptionally nice upon inspection.

    A great car is a car that has been shown exceptional care, it has low mileage, and its life is documented. Or it has undergone a professional (not you and Billy Bob) restoration with plenty of documentation both on its history and restoration. A professional restoration is not done at your local service shop, its done by a specialty restoration shop. There is a big, big difference; it’s called details!

    Third, the trolls that inhabit message boards are not experts. They just think and act like them. And way too many buyers are listening to the wrong guys! Brokers have no skin in the game, no money, little time, and usually slim knowledge of the actual market. The first five-digit estimate ($$) from the local service shop usually opens the buyer’s eyes to what they really acquired, but it’s too late.

    Simply stated: Because you worked on these cars or sold these cars, drove these cars, raced these cars, and read every book on these cars 30 years ago does not make you an expert today.

    What’s happening in the market today is a separation of the men and the boys. The top tier true collector cars – such as the 1998 911 GT1 shown above – are still gaining in value while 90% cars are dropping. The top tier market has an entry price much higher than ever imagined just a decade ago and it is for only the rarest and most desirable cars. The 918 buyers have taken notice and only want the rarest, best, and lowest mileage cars to invest in. The key word is invest!

    When you buy the best, you notice that the market does not fluctuate much.

    Plenty of collectors want the best, few want the others? Where are you in this equation?

    This is just my 2 cents worth."
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I know Kevin, and he makes some great points, most of which I agree with, especially the proliferation of trolls and internet experts.

    I also agree with the proliferation of poor work bestowed upon many cars, all still wanting top dollar.

    On a personal note, I don't agree that all brokers or consultants have no skin in the game, no money, little time, and usually slim knowledge of the actual market, because I can think of at least 2 of us where the opposite is true, but, will concede that Kevin is right for the most part.

    I was smiling reading his piece, but then I started laughing outright when I got to "What’s happening in the market today is a separation of the men and the boys".

    Ain't that the truth!

    Here's my quote for the Easter weekend:

    Up on Mount Everest where the air is thin, sometimes you need oxygen to see clearly.
     
  19. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie

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    #5219 cnpapa24, Apr 15, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
    I thought I'd share where I think numbers are today based on private sales I am aware of, what I've seen trade at auction, and older sales adjusted for today's market. My numbers are based on typical cars without one off colors, unique provenance, etc so as not to confuse potential sellers / buyers with non-comparable sales. I've based my range from 3- condition, eventually due for restoration but useable today to 1 condition, well preserved, highly original cars and first class nut and bolt restoration. I don't expect a delivery mile / sub 1,000 mile car to fit within my range, nor would a basket case, so perhaps a tighter and more relevant/practical range for the users of this forum. While we know there will be cars like the green S3, the copper delivery mile S1, and Joe's Ex-Mimram car that can leave these numbers in the dust, I have left those out of the equation, which I think is the major difference between my numbers and Joe's. I would also expect the majority of cars to trade between 75-85% of the top figure. As I said previously, I am a student of the market and not a Professor so I look forward to feedback, but if I were a buyer or seller of the variants below, I'd be comfortable in this range:


    LP400 - $750,000 to $1,100,000

    LP400S S1 - $450,000 to $700,000

    LP400S S2 - $400,000 to $600,000

    LP400S S3 - $350,000 to $550,000

    LP500S - $300,000 to $500,000

    LP500QV FI - $175,000 to $350,000

    LP500QV DD - $400,000 to $600,000

    ANNIVESARIO - $175,000 to $350,000
     
  20. jb21

    jb21 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    144
    Thought you'd like it, Joe. Made me laugh too. I can just hear him saying it...

    And I am sure he doesn't mean it to apply to everyone...

    He suggests, and I agree, that we have to watch out for the that "superiority bias" that leads to 80% of drivers believing their pedalling abilities are above average on the road. Apply this to valuing cars and, no doubt, 80% of owners, sellers and pundits think their cars and opinions are of above average value too.

    They can't all be right.

    Keep the oxygen coming...


     
  21. jb21

    jb21 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
    144
    FWIW, in support of your QV DD range, I know of three sales (RHD) in the last year on which I am able to provide useful info on the traded price and condition of the cars.

    Two were structurally sound, useable cars in standard colours, one a 3- as you describe it, one a 3+. Both traded below $400k at todays FX rates. However, at last May's GBP/USD rates, they would have fit in with your numbers, in the $400/450 area.

    I won't comment on the condition of the third car, since I own it. But I will say it was also within your price range and I am very happy with it.

    The 15/20% move in FX after Brexit has not been reclaimed by UK based cars; even a very good one would probably struggle to make the upper half of your range in $ today. On a relative basis, they seem inexpensive.

    Here are two other cars that have been for sale in the UK of late...being offered in the $400/$500 range. The Simon Furlonger car has recently disappeared from their website, so has either sold or been returned to its owner.

    https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lamborghini/countach/lamborghini-countach-5000-quattrovalvole/5984085

    https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lamborghini/countach/lamborghini-countach-5000qv/6589335

    It will be interesting to see whether you get more pushback on your numbers from owners or would-be buyers...

     
  22. Ellagirl

    Ellagirl F1 Rookie

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    In all fairness. Fuelies in the Us (where most are) sell very quick in low 200$. Wich should give it a fair 225 low nbr. On the high side a black black bumper car 2 k miles sold at 400 right now. Wich should give a high nmbr of 400. Imho. If a fulie in perfect restored cond (joes car) in a desireble color combo. Light interior. It would bring more than the ( vorst color combo)black black bumper car. For now. Speculation. Anni cars have been bid to 175. But are the sellers letting go? Anyway. Fair is fair.
     
  23. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie

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    #5223 cnpapa24, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    Thanks for the info. I find it is always difficult to compare values in the UK to the U.S. or Europe, both pre and post Brexit, especially for RHD cars.

    That said, I have seen some opportunities there post Brexit that people in the U.S. have capitalized on.

    You also bring up another variable, which is cars with strakes and how they impact value.
     
  24. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    All the ranges listed in the past several pages are very wide, so they are confusing to potential new to the market buyers.

    It would be helpful if some of the knowledgeable people would break these down by condition ratings (maybe 1-3 would be enough). For example, what would a $175k car look like mechanically and appearance? Do not remember seeing anything like this recently.
     
  25. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie

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    #5225 cnpapa24, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    Generally speaking if you used my 85% of high value as the higher end for a strong condition 2 car and 75% of high value as the higher end for a strong condition 3 car, I don't think it would be too far off. Adjust up and down from there for condition, originality, mechanical needs, history, books, tools, etc.

    A few other tweaks for discussion:
    Later S1 with Jaeger gauges deduct 5%
    QV Downdraft with skirts deduct 10%
    QV Fuelie with Euro conversion (removed skirts / bumpers) add 10%
     

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