Very Strange Race Track Expereince

Entropy · May 9, 2017

gw32 said: ↑

Thanks for the commentary on the brakes. That helps a lot. To me, relative to Porches, which is all I am familiar with on track, the brake don't have good initial bit and require lots more pedal pressure, especially for a street car. I didn't try modulation, but given how they feel probably don't allow for modulation. After coming in from my first session I noticed the brake were definitely hot so that isn't the issue.

I don't think this car had been driven hard. There was 75% remaining on the clutch and 80% on the brakes with 13 K miles. The tech thought they were original. So, would the pads have been replaced or could they be original as well? I didn't see any mention of pads on the invoices I received. So wouldn't that eliminate bedding and glazing issues? A brake fluid change and I assume a bleed was on the service records and I had that done as well 3 weeks ago. I also had the pads removed cleaned and inspected. Tech didn't see anything wrong (20 yr. Ferrari dealership tech). Are there better pads for the track that I should use?
Click to expand...

pure guess but would imagine the pads are original. question is were they ever bedded, but if you drove more than a session on track they likely are; the other thing to check is for glazing but that's a visual check.

there ARE more aggressive track pads, I'm unsure which most folks prefer....Challenge spec pads are very aggressive, which also means your rotors will wear faster.

Need4Spd · May 9, 2017

Entropy said: ↑

I'd bet $50 that the spin was not electronically induced. From your description, you were under control, under moderate throttle, wheel coming back to center, low side loads...that would keep the system below the trigger thresholds for interventions. A variable could be the e-Diff, but again the e-Diff really kicks in on hard exits. Typically the way the software is developed, if the system detects any issue ("value not plausible") it will shut itself off and you'll see a warning light.

The 430 will store fault codes, so you can see those, but it does not log data, so you won't be able to really see what happened with the data per se.
Click to expand...

What you describe is when the systems work *properly*. What happened to the OP is not normal, and the hypothesis is that they malfunctioned. Since these systems *could* possibly 1) apply rear braking; and/or 2) apply locking to the e-diff, the hypothesis is that a malfunction in either or both systems *could* possibly cause what happened. That's all. Just a hypothesis. It will be interesting to see what if anything is found by tech inspection that actually is wrong.

singletrack · May 10, 2017

gw32 said: ↑

Thanks for the commentary on the brakes. That helps a lot. To me, relative to Porches, which is all I am familiar with on track, the brake don't have good initial bit and require lots more pedal pressure, especially for a street car. I didn't try modulation, but given how they feel probably don't allow for modulation. After coming in from my first session I noticed the brake were definitely hot so that isn't the issue.

I don't think this car had been driven hard. There was 75% remaining on the clutch and 80% on the brakes with 13 K miles. The tech thought they were original. So, would the pads have been replaced or could they be original as well? I didn't see any mention of pads on the invoices I received. So wouldn't that eliminate bedding and glazing issues? A brake fluid change and I assume a bleed was on the service records and I had that done as well 3 weeks ago. I also had the pads removed cleaned and inspected. Tech didn't see anything wrong (20 yr. Ferrari dealership tech). Are there better pads for the track that I should use?
Click to expand...

I have a number of threads on pads in the 430 section if you search. I run Pagid RSC's and am happy with them. I think Pagid might have additional options now as well.

On the issue - assuming it was the car and not you (I have no idea)...one thing that comes to mind is the e-diff overheating. I've never run my car in sport at the track, but have heard that the e-diff can overheat if you do so and are aggressive on throttle coming out of turns. The codes should be stored as others have mentioned, so hopefully you get it figured out.

Good luck!

gw32 · May 11, 2017

singletrack said: ↑

I have a number of threads on pads in the 430 section if you search. I run Pagid RSC's and am happy with them. I think Pagid might have additional options now as well.

On the issue - assuming it was the car and not you (I have no idea)...one thing that comes to mind is the e-diff overheating. I've never run my car in sport at the track, but have heard that the e-diff can overheat if you do so and are aggressive on throttle coming out of turns. The codes should be stored as others have mentioned, so hopefully you get it figured out.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on pads, I will probably try Pagid's.
Picking the car up this morning. I'll get a debrief then. Sounds like they found a faulty sensor but they don't know if that was the cause. I'll post more later today.

ProCoach · May 12, 2017

Entropy said: ↑

In the 430 and 458, "in general" with the brakes, they will work well if

1) bedded properly
2) not glazed
3) bled properly
4) booster, et al, functioning properly

The 430 will store fault codes, so you can see those, but it does not log data, so you won't be able to really see what happened with the data per se.
Click to expand...

There are inexpensive loggers that record wheels speeds, and with the comparison between them, longitudinal g and brake pressure, you can gauge braking efficiency. And see what went wrong...

raider1968 · May 12, 2017

Running like that you should at least have the car in track

robert_fulton · May 16, 2017

gw32 said: ↑

Thanks for the info on pads, I will probably try Pagid's.
Picking the car up this morning. I'll get a debrief then. Sounds like they found a faulty sensor but they don't know if that was the cause. I'll post more later today.
Click to expand...

Have you heard anything definitive (or even speculative from the shop?

95spiderman · May 18, 2017

Tonight I was just looking at an awesome scud and thinking how great it would be as next track/street toy. But then I read this how op doesn't want to track it after only 1 day. Fear of damage, break down, etc might also be too much for me to enjoy it the way I want to. Sticking with what I have for now

spicedriver · May 19, 2017

gw32 said: ↑

I would appreciate any input on a very strange experience I had this morning at Sonoma Raceway. While going to full throttle about 100 yards pass the apex for turn 6 (the carrousel), the car abruptly spun. It was as if I hit a patch of oil and slammed on the brakes. There was no warning and no traction control activation. This was the first lap of the second session and I was easing into the throttle, probably doing 75-80 mph at the time of the spin. I did a 360+ spin and was able to continue back to the pits. It was as if all 4 tires were locked up.. lots of smoke. I didnt even get a chance to use the brakes before sliding to a stop.
The red BRAKE light was on, the amber warning light with a diagonal line through CTS came on and code F1-S indicated. These dash waning lights did not come back on after turning the car off and on again. The car was in Sport mode. I just bought the car 3 weeks and 500 miles ago. I had a PPI done and a service.
The manual states: BRAKE Warning: Caution: Danger of rear wheels locking due to malfunction of the electronic brake-force distribution system and possibility of spinning". NO ****!
I called it quits and drove the car home after the spin. Nothing seemed out of sorts on the drive home.
Since acquiring the car the brakes have felt odd and make a scraping noise when coming to a stop. I took in back to the same service tech and they dismantled and cleaned the brakes, saying there was nothing wrong with them. The same noise remained. Unrelated to this track event, the car seems difficult to stop (before and after the track event), requiring an unusual amount of pedal pressure, almost as if the brakes are unassisted and never seem to get a good set for lack of better term. This is my first Ferrari and my first car with ceramic brakes. That said, I have been racing a Porsche at Sonoma for the pass 10 yrs. with NASA and PCA.
Im having the car trailered back to the service tech tomorrow but thought I would see if anyone has any ideas on whats wrong with the car. Thanks
Click to expand...

It's a good thing you didn't get hurt.

I think I would find some way to bypass the ABS system, or install a completely different set of brakes, and a manual bias adjustment. The simpler the system, the less likely for something to go wrong.

gw32 · May 19, 2017

robert_fulton said: ↑

Have you heard anything definitive (or even speculative from the shop?
Click to expand...

The shop I took it to last week could not find anything wrong so I took it to a Ferrari dealer and got a report back yesterday afternoon that one of the front brake calipers was making an unusually creaking sound. They said this is very suspicious and recommended taking the caliper off the car, inspecting and doing a bench bleed. This will be done on Monday.

The first shop tech suggested it could be a problem with the manatino selector but didn't know how to go about inspecting/diagnosing the manatino.

I've talk to several people that track Ferrari's at Sonoma and everyone says there is no reason why the car would spin were it did while in sport mode other than some sort of car problem. I really hope they find something as I don't know what I'll do if they don't.

Bruce · Jun 30, 2017

Did you ever resolve the cause of this mystery?

Conversations

Alerts

Very Strange Race Track Expereince

Entropy Formula 3
Owner

Need4Spd F1 Veteran

singletrack F1 Veteran

gw32 Formula Junior

ProCoach F1 Veteran
Owner

raider1968 F1 Rookie
Owner

robert_fulton Rookie

95spiderman F1 World Champ
Silver Subscribed

spicedriver F1 Rookie

gw32 Formula Junior

Bruce Karting
Rossa Subscribed

Share This Page

Very Strange Race Track Expereince

Entropy Formula 3 Owner

Need4Spd F1 Veteran

singletrack F1 Veteran

gw32 Formula Junior

ProCoach F1 Veteran Owner

raider1968 F1 Rookie Owner

robert_fulton Rookie

95spiderman F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

spicedriver F1 Rookie

gw32 Formula Junior

Bruce Karting Rossa Subscribed

Share This Page

Entropy Formula 3
Owner

ProCoach F1 Veteran
Owner

raider1968 F1 Rookie
Owner

95spiderman F1 World Champ
Silver Subscribed

Bruce Karting
Rossa Subscribed