Is this a record? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Is this a record?

Discussion in '348/355' started by vdettore, Jul 14, 2017.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. driveitdaily

    driveitdaily Formula 3

    Jul 20, 2013
    1,041
    lake ariel pennsylva
    Full Name:
    john
    #26 driveitdaily, Jul 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    Problem is , and I say this as a shop owner, if he pulls that car from the shop , is finding a shop that will accept what someone else has taken apart, we wouldn't , we did it once on an audi s8 , and the whole experience was a nightmare , it can be done but its going to be hard to find someone happy about undertaking the job.

    I have to agree with Dave on the parts , its all out there to be had pretty quickly , very few things about that job are obscure.

    oh and , the biggest mistake you can make , no matter how pissed you are , is , don't go in there with any attitude , gather your cool and be calm. I recall an especially unreasonable customer , with car tore apart here ( not for 16 weeks tho ) they changed their attitude when I said " here's the phone , call a tow truck and get it out of here" .Wow , how quickly hey changed their attitude , lol. I don't recall the situation , but I'm pretty laid back , it would take a lot to get me there , but they did .So try to be composed , you don't want that to happen .

    Next time you go , do it around lunchtime , take the guys there a tray or two of pizza, you might be surprised at how far a simple gesture will you .
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    The new shop2 would have to have a brain. Shop2 would have to know by sight if anything was missing and tell the owner no guarantees and all the potential pitfalls just like your doctor gives you "informed consent" for surgery, i.e all the ways you can die get infection etc. etc. For all the new shop2 knows the reason for the delay is unwillingness of shop 1 to tell owner they already broke the car doing a bad belt install and hitting valves. Now that is an extreme possibility but shop 2 has no clue. So there is the liability to shop 2 and I totally get why shop 2 would say they would not touch it. But knowledge is power and if shop2 has the knowledge no problem and probably charge a bit more for the extra risk but there is no shop time for the subframe removal so owner gets some hours of labor back. I would love to buy someone's Ferrari as a box of parts for an extreme discount because I have confidence in my knowledge. Others would be too fearful to make the purchase. For example, lets say the clutch is separated from the motor unit. People talk about that adding time to the job. Well it would take me about an hour to fit a new one perhaps a lot less time than that. It takes me 2 hours for a clutch if the car is just rolled onto my lift and I'm not a pro. I don't see how to justify 16 weeks and counting. Track record so far leads me to believe there is probably greater chance of this going to 32 weeks than ending next week.
     
  3. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,429
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Tony
    how so different industries can be..? im in financial services.. and I bend over backwards for my client.. regardless the situation.. even if the client is being unreasonable..

    what happened to "customer is always right"....?

    but in the mechanics industry.. the mechanic always has upper hand..
    as soon as the client puts pressure, shows frustration or offers some attitude..

    most mechanics would respond as you did above.. " take your car and get out".

    and here, youre suggesting to the OP, after 16weeks to go bring them Pizza lol..
     
  4. driveitdaily

    driveitdaily Formula 3

    Jul 20, 2013
    1,041
    lake ariel pennsylva
    Full Name:
    john
    #29 driveitdaily, Jul 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    His car is tore apart, he's at their mercy now , getting pissy is only going to make it worse.

    The customer is always right at McDonalds , if you don't like it you can go home and cook your own dinner , If you can't fix your own car , then ,as hard it may be to admit , you are dependent on the mechanic. It may not be good business on part of the shop the OP chose , but its too late now , most shops will not accept the car bought to them in pieces . Just the task of moving the car with the rear subframe out would be a nightmare. At this point he's got to grin and bear it and not the situation any worse or the car sit and sit and sit, they can demand he remove the car and not release the car until a hefty bill is paid. I'd buy pizza and donuts and steak dinners , whatever it takes, get the job finished and never go back there
     
  5. driveitdaily

    driveitdaily Formula 3

    Jul 20, 2013
    1,041
    lake ariel pennsylva
    Full Name:
    john
    Well said , its not a complicated car , its the liability factor to shop 2. Hate to say it but there's an arrogance factor with the mechanics pertaining to cleaning up someone else's mess
    .
     
  6. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    It's quite obvious the car has been sitting more than being worked on. The shop (for whatever reason) is working on other orders and putting this car on the back burner.

    I agree it's best to stay calm - nothing good will come from a hot headed discussion (regardless of who is right or wrong)

    But take them a pizza? **** that!!! That's one of the problems of this world - rewarding or kissing the ass of the guy that is screwing you. BS. I'll take the pizza to the guy that treats me right from the start.
     
  7. driveitdaily

    driveitdaily Formula 3

    Jul 20, 2013
    1,041
    lake ariel pennsylva
    Full Name:
    john
    They have him by the balls now , unfortunately , I would just want my car back , I couldn't hurt.

    They obviously don't care , they can say get the car out of here , say he owes them $10,000 to release the car and he's powerless ,other than to sue them , more time , and the car will sit there till the courts decide , I'd kiss their ass then leave a bad review everywhere I could , ultimately I'd just want my car back. 2 weeks would be too long.
     
  8. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Nov 23, 2012
    16,047
    Orchard Park, NY
    Full Name:
    Dave Lelonek
    The absolute best thing to do is work this out with the current shop as I have already posted. But sometimes, that just can't be done. It's a matter of both parties putting in some effort.

    But I can tell you from experience, I've pulled stuff from shops more than once. No friggin way will I be held hostage. If the relationship is badly damaged, the work will likely suffer and then it would be best for both parties to move on.
     
  9. driveitdaily

    driveitdaily Formula 3

    Jul 20, 2013
    1,041
    lake ariel pennsylva
    Full Name:
    john
    #34 driveitdaily, Jul 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
    You're absolutely right , at that point I don't now if I would even want them working on my car . And in most circumstances , it would be easy to pull the car from the shop . but a 348 with the whole back half off , what a nightmare to move , its a tough situation.
     
  10. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,562
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee
    Shop dude just got some fog on the brain with a side order of wet feet

    Go assure him it's OK lets start over and get it going in the right direction.

    After all poop happens sometimes and he may need a new binky


    :)
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    Agree with DR on this one. Next thread will be OP questioning the work on Fchat.

    DR will send his rear frame wheels and you can roll the chassis on the flatbed. Cherry pick subassembly on flatbed takes 10 mins with rope on heads or roll onto flatbed with harbor freight furniture dolly $15 bucks! Guy says he got no cherry picker then rent from local autoparts store. Anything else in boxes can fit inside the front bonnet. Done! Sucks and nerve racking for the OP but very doable. Pay him the hours for the subassembly removal and move on. Don't get cheated pay no more than Ricambi or FNA "retail" for parts in your hand. Anything he does not have in his hand he eats. Everything has a part number and there is no mystery pricing.
     
  12. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    I don't have any fresh suggestions but I can commiserate because I made the same mistake 11 years ago when I bought my 348.

    I didn't know if Fchat and the valuable information here. I took it to an exotic car repair shop and they had the car for 2.5 months. But to make matters worth, the car didn't run right afterwards. They replaced cat ecu, coils, etc etc. bill was over $20k and car still didn't run right.

    I then took it to Brian Crall, the resident expert Ferrari mechanic. He had to perform another engine out service and correct the mistakes (the worst was the incorrectly installed belt tensioner that was actually digging into the belt and would ultimately have let to breakage and complete engine failure).

    Attempted to get my money back or portions refunded but no dice. That place is now out of business.

    Expensive lesson. But now I know.


    Kai
     
  13. radlu

    radlu Formula Junior

    Jun 6, 2005
    407
    Just go buy another one.
     
  14. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,611
    WI
    Mine car went to a pretty well known, indy Ferrari shop for the engine out service in 2015.

    My 355 went in January 6th, Came out June 25th. Well, late May actually, but they forgot the fuel block seals and made quite mess of things on my 15 mile run, but I didn't blow up! :) So it went back. Then the transmission...

    It ran right after I spent the month of July fixing the residual issues.

    We still talk. They learned some things at my expense, but that happens. I stop by at times and keep the peace. Probably do my own engine service next time though.

    You are not alone. Keep calm, and carry on ;)
     
  15. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
    353
    Georgia Coast
    Full Name:
    Vince


    Awesome idea on the lunch. Yes I agree - I'll stay composed and have been this far. I think disappointment would describe my attitude on my last visit to the shop.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
    353
    Georgia Coast
    Full Name:
    Vince


    The mechanic working on mine found that the belt tensioner was put on backward and eating into the belt. The belt was eaten up pretty bad.
    The mechanic has done a good job of showing me everything he does( I make weekly visits) but he stops any further work when he runs into a part that needs replaced outside of the normal 30k parts. Then it sits for 10 days until the guy who orders parts gets around to placing the order.

    We'll see what happens. I'll just grin and bear it. I haven't been rude in anyway to the mechanic. Maybe disappointed but that's it. Though I did send an email to the owner after the last visit voicing my concerns.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    Sounds like my old bad mechanic worked on your car as well installing the belt tensioner backwards...

    :)

    Kai
     
  18. BucksTifoso

    BucksTifoso Karting

    Nov 24, 2013
    91
    Furlong, PA
    Full Name:
    Randy Crownover
    I had a similar experience when I bought my 355. I drove it from Florida to a Pennsylvania. The major had been done two years prior. The dealership I bought it from recommended taking it to an independent garage, as "that's where all the best mechanics end up". I did that and three months later got the car back with a $14,000 bill!! The shop was very good at communicating what they were finding, with the request for approval to go ahead and make the repairs each time. This sounds very appropriate, but after awhile, I felt like they were just feeling out my credit limits. The car would be ready for delivery, then after a test drive, this sensor or that module would be found to be bad. After they had the car for two months, they found a bad spark plug! I was a little incensed that they were finding something as basic as a bad spark plug so late in the game. Their answer was that modern cars don't need routine replacement of plugs. $1000 later for plugs and wires and another month wait for them to arrive! Even though there was a lot of icy/snow conditions that winter, I finally got the car out of there as soon as I could. They often do have you by the balls! My take was that I would never go back there again and have told others of my experience there. Since then, I have had the car serviced at a Ferrari dealership and at another independent garage. I had my major done about a month ago. It took all of one week!
     
  19. vdettore

    vdettore Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2017
    353
    Georgia Coast
    Full Name:
    Vince
    Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and your own personal experiences. This has allowed me to rethink my expectations of the service and the shop at this point. So I'll continue to make my weekly visits, stay on good terms with the mechanic. If anything for my own sanity.
    I bought the Ferrari because I've always wanted since I was a kid, so I'll learn from this and look forward to finally getting it back - hopefully sooner than later.

    Thank God I have a boat I can go cruise around in. Lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. INRange

    INRange F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2014
    10,013
    Virginia/Florida/Caymans
    Full Name:
    JD
    That's the right attitude to have.

    Also what I have learned is that owning a Ferrari makes boating an "inexpensive" hobby. While Boaters invented what BOAT stood for (Break Out Another Thousand)...Ferrari owners have no such limit.
     
  21. Nader

    Nader Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2011
    990
    East of Seattle
    I have never, ever, heard any boat owner utter this. :)

    I have a few relatively expensive hobbies, but I thank my lucky stars that I've kept myself away from boats and planes, and my wife away from horses (so far).
     
  22. emac

    emac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 14, 2014
    851
    upstate SC
    Full Name:
    ernest
    I remember helping my great uncle Leo (big boater guy) get his boat ready for winter storage. After about ten trips with a wheelbarrow, in his old New York Italian voice, he yells:

    "This is boating.....carrying crap back and forth to the car!" I sure miss those relatives.
     
  23. dahveedem

    dahveedem Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2012
    1,586
    Maryland
    Full Name:
    David
    Lol.. break out bust out another thousand.

    Patience is your ally my friend

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
     
  24. Boaf 32

    Boaf 32 Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2016
    390
    US
    Dave knows that I have gone through alot of this type of "shenanigans" with my 1999 355 F1. I found a reputable service center in Floriday and very happy with them. I would pull it out once you find that reputable dealer or authorized Ferrari service center. You'll feel much better about the car and yourself.

    Boaf
     
  25. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    15,874
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    #50 vrsurgeon, Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    Sorry I noticed this thread as I still keep the ears tuned for a 348.

    The relationship I have with my mechanic.. he understands that I "get it". He has a good idea what I'm looking for with a repair and to what extent a repair should be pushed.
    "It's OK Karl. I'll take care of that when I get it home. Don't worry I'll take care of it."

    His team can do the big stuff and I can take care of the more easy to access parts. I get that the engine is out and you have the best access to everything and you want it good as new when you get it back, but what parts are they finding. It's to to have a "While You're At It" philosophy, but what I found with my 928 is you can end up replacing things that could probably be deferred and spread out the $$$ and give you time with the car.

    Maybe ask them to button up the big stuff and take care of the smaller issues later? I can't imagine anything more than belts, tensioners, valve cover gasket and seals.. then reinstall and repair in time with the subframe on car.
     

Share This Page