great Sheehan Classiche article | Page 6 | FerrariChat

great Sheehan Classiche article

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by rob lay, Aug 1, 2017.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 12, 2009
    3,215
    Saratoga Springs NY
    Full Name:
    Seth
    COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC!!!

    Well - with a wry smile - in New York State we lawyers need to be recertified every two years by the Office of Court Administration. Requires our written certification that in the intervening two years we have completed at least 24 hours of continuing legal education; also requires payment of a $375. fee. Basically it's a tax on lawyers. The OCA lists current NY lawyer population as 172,630 x $375. = almost $65,000,000. added to State's coffers. It is true that $135. of the $375. goes to Client Protection Fund, to Indigent Legal Services and Legal Services Assistance Funds.
     
  2. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know
    That is a question that has yet to be answered by a US Dealer.

    From MY personal perspective, as a current Service Director , is that if a client is bringing their currently Classiche'ed Ferrari in for its annual service, that we will confirm, and sign off at no additional charge to the client.

    This is my opinion based upon the information I have at this time.

    S
     
  3. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know
    Similar requirements in Texas as well.

    S
     
  4. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 12, 2009
    3,215
    Saratoga Springs NY
    Full Name:
    Seth
    you are aware that FIAT spun off Ferrari as an independent Company almost two years ago?
     
  5. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know
    Similar requirements in Texas as well.

    S
     
  6. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
    Europe
    Full Name:
    Barry K
    That's very honourable of you and good business sense, but somehow, I doubt Ferrari will give away the annual inspection. If they did, it would be a Ferrari first. Let's see what pans out.
     
  7. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,017
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    You make that statement without knowing what level of inspection or how thorough the annual renewal is. You could be setting yourself up for a lot of unpaid work.
     
  8. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner

    Aug 25, 2004
    5,378
    Dallas Texas
    Full Name:
    If you know you know
    #133 SAFE4NOW, Aug 5, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
    Thank you and agreed.


    Yes / No , can an annual confirmation inspection be more detailed than the first?

    On assumption, we will just need to visually inspect , but you are right... what if I have to pull fuel bladders completely out or perform metal tests... Yikes!

    S
     
  9. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 12, 2009
    3,215
    Saratoga Springs NY
    Full Name:
    Seth
    Steve, we're talking about an annual in conjunction with a normal annual fluids and filters service. Fairly unlikely to be seriously work-intensive. Though of course one can't guess what the Sweater and his minions may dream up.
     
  10. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2004
    6,299
    Full Name:
    Ron
    #135 Challenge64, Aug 5, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
    What you are saying about the Ferrari Tribute makes no sense. Out of the 95 or so entrants for 2017, only 12 cars were older than 20 years. It is absurd to think that there will be a Classiche requirement for this event for all future vehicles.

    I've emailed my contacts at the Mille Miglia for clarification but owing to the holidays I don't expect an answer anytime soon.
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    Sir

    Please see post #117.
    Thank you.

    Marcel Massini
     
  12. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2004
    6,299
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Sir

    Your post does not address the supposed new requirements for all Ferraris needing a Classische certification for the Ferrari Tribute to The Mille Miglia.

    After rereading post 117, all you mention is that the Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia is a Full Ferrari Factory Event - despite the fact that Almost all my personal interactions, communications, approval, payments, receipts, tech inspections, applications, emails, phone calls, check points, Time cards etc etc have all been with representatives of the 1000 Miglia srl.
    But that's ok, your word is god so I'll except it too.

    Thank you.
     
  13. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    16,445
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    When Marcel speaks...
     
  14. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2003
    2,381
    I was, but I figured there would be still some sort of agreement as many have built new dealership buildings just prior to this rule, but reading all of this makes me believe there is no gentleman's agreement or grandfather clauses.
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #140 Marcel Massini, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    Seems we talk about two different events here.
    One is the historic Mille Miglia for classic cars built between 1927 to 1957 (all makes).
    The other is the Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia which is mostly for the new(er) cars (Ferraris and Dinos only), and TTBOMK you have participated in that at least twice (in 2017 with 458 Speciale #212814).
    These are two different events with different rules and different organisers (except the administration), even a different starting location.

    My contribution is/was re the "old" historic Mille Miglia for classic cars (1927 to 1957) and it is this event where the organiser's selection committee consult with the factory and with Classiche to make sure that all accepted Ferraris are genuine and authentic. And possibly certified as well. Until about fifteen years ago there were up to 45 classic Ferraris participating in the Mille Miglia (NO Tribute back then). Besides the increase in value the introduction of the certification seems to have also led to a reduction of Ferrari participants. This year there were just 16 classic Ferraris, while the entire 2017 Mille Miglia (without Ferrari Tribute and without Mercedes Tribute) included about 460 classic cars. A little disappointing for those who love classic Ferraris of the 1950's.

    The other event, for the new cars, the Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia, is something else.
    May be I am wrong but I don't think anybody here in this thread said that the (new) Ferraris in the Ferrari Tribute to the Mille Miglia must all be Classiche certified. Most of these Ferraris are way too young anyway for a certification (such as a 458 Speciale, etc.).

    Marcel Massini
     
  16. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    503
    Thanks and I fully agree again.
     
  17. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2004
    9,065
    SF
    That's sad and unfortunate.
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    Well, we can now start debating what happened to the much loved Shell Ferrari Maserati Historic Challenge.
    Same story there. I have a number of personal friends who regularly used to race their classic Ferraris in the challenge but once the certification became mandatory they stopped entering their Ferraris in the factory challenge series. Which automatically led to much smaller fields. And then somebody pulled the plug and the challenge was history.

    Marcel Massini
     
  19. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2017
    6,200
    Another interesting thought which I don't believe has been discussed in this thread yet - is the Ferrari dealership network (and specifically Classiche authorized dealers) even fully able to service classic cars, regardless of the model? Admittedly, I don't own a vintage car, but what about an official factory supplied parts chain that long ago ended for older cars? Also, what about proper training of technicians. Is someone really going to take their 250 LM to a dealer and have a technician who's specialty is 488's and LaFerrari's, work on their car? I can't imagine that.
     
    Marty D likes this.
  20. TTR

    TTR F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    5,145
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    Without going back through all posts, I believe points you're raising have been addressed already and if not on this thread, elsewhere.

    "factory supplied parts... for older cars ?"
    There are and has been for years number of independent reproducers/suppliers of hard to find mechanical parts and components which the factory can/will access as needed, put their blessing or stamp on to make them "official" and sell them at high(?) profit.
    If the owner was to try and circumvent this by buying the same part or component directly from its reproducer or "un-official" supplier (to save money?), it probably wouldn't be considered "blessed" & therefore not eligible for certification.

    "proper training of technicians" ?
    I think this was addressed in the OP article. Authorized Classiche dealers/service centers are or will be "required" (periodically) to send technician(s) to factory training, which I'm guessing the said factory won't offer without proper compensation.
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    Nobody said a dealer's technician will have to work on a 250 LM.
    It can be assumed that the dealer's technician will perform a VISUAL inspection and comparison with red book pix and possible computer data if anything has been changed, modified, replaced on a car since the last check 12 months earlier.

    It is most probably not about a service or "maintenance" (even if the new little additional booklet is titled "Libretto Manutenzione").

    Marcel Massini
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    Which dealer is that, please?
    Thank you.

    Marcel Massini
     
  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #148 Marcel Massini, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a photo of the Factory Training Centre in Maranello.
    Located at Via Eugenio Castellotti in the new industrial zone.

    Marcel Massini
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    512
    Post (109) by CornersWell is well stated. The alleged strong-arm money underpinnings of Classiche and hypocrisy (i.e. silent dependence on outside sources for restoration work and parts, the lack of knowledge about their own historic product, aside from having the records to look at, ignoring important follow-on history, etc.) have diminished my respect for the company, and tainted interest. My enthusiasm is sustained only as it goes far back to a teenager in the 60's, and by knowledge shared by historians, fellow enthusiasts and restorers who have brought together expertise beyond the factory today.

    I had the good fortune to visit the factory in 1978. I simply wrote a letter, months in advance, politely asking if I could visit when I would be on vacation in Italy - a wish trip to the Italian Grand Prix on a shoestring budget. Despite no reply to my letter, on arrival in nearby Bologna, I took a chance, called the factory, and was told I was expected, please do come tomorrow. I didn't even know how to get to Maranello, so I took a train to Modena; counted my lira, just enough for a taxi to the factory (the road to Maranello was mostly farm land then). I was greeted by Franco Gozzi (!!), who introduced me to a sales director*. Now I was just a young guy, obviously not a lot of money. The director treated me with grace, and addressed me "Architetto" learning I was an architect (the one and only time in my life to be greeted with a title). He pleasantly gave me a tour of the production facilities, and a gift from my visit. It was splendid, a prized memory. And when I once wrote the factory for a copy of assembly data sheets on Dyke Ridgley's advice, they arrived in the mail six months later, post-marked Maranello. A different time; other than a good story, the point is the factory today is not exhibiting to most (more accurately, seemingly dismisses out of greed) a comparable sense of good will.

    The factory should reasonably help the customers and restorers; it would go much farther to honor a rich heritage than a ransom routine. If you are an owner, a certified copy of the original data sheets would be welcome to have with the car as a long-lasting demonstration of the original specification - a comparison for anyone to see what is different or changed (yes documents can be doctored; life is imperfect but the Ferrari world is small, readily discovered). I would pay a reasonable fee for the data sheets for my car and would be open to have an authorized dealer see the car as part of a modest service – only to record the numbers found, matching or not, and condition at a point in time for reference, regardless of its state or flaws. The owner can then decide the details going forward, what to correct or not, by whom, etc. You have 6-carbs instead of the original 3 on your 275, be my guest - the data will point out differences. Assist/acknowledge companies making quality parts as accurately as possible if the factory is not doing it themselves. Top restorers deserve respect from Ferrari, for great work and great research. After all, much of Ferrari racing legend is built on the non-factory teams of the past. This current approach is a lot of elitist BS, and would make no difference to me as a buyer or seller. I’m not interested in being taken advantage of. I trust my own study and judgment to my admitted limits of experience, and I hopefully know by now who to seek guidance from. No excuse for not doing homework, given all the information and resources out there. All said I did receive very kind help and essential confirmation, years earlier in the program, of data I provided, from a past director of Classiche. It was generous of him to research the request, timely, pleasant and welcome, the way one would appreciate. It is your heritage Piero, perhaps you are listening. Otherwise my enthusiasm is taking a hit. Anyway, I bite my tongue on Sundays and cheer for Seb and Kimi.

    [*the story gets better, I was late arriving to Maranello, because the Red Brigade had bombed one of the tracks, outside of Bologna that morning. Mr. Gozzi was most understanding, no apology necessary, he was aware of the incident. Monza, - the 12 cylinder Ferraris, Alfa Romeos and Matras screaming on the run up to Parabolica, electric.....and sadly, the loss of Ronnie Peterson.]
     
    Marty D likes this.
  25. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    +1

    One should also read page 1 of the Drogo book by Marc de Rijck & Jack Koobs de Hartog
     

Share This Page