430 Scud 'back' to a 360 CS

coming from a proud owner of CS.

I've driven the scud from time to time, buddy's car.

I have to tell you, you won't go back, once you go scud.

mind you that the above comment was assuming value of car is no object.

 

I added an CS to my Scud, and would not want to miss it! The CS is rawer than the Scud and the sound of the engine just unbelievable! You should add not switch. I do agree that the Scud is by far better car , nevertheless The CS is very desirable


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I agree with "add" not "switch".

 

NEVER - having had both

 

I have had my 430 Scuderia since 2011 and it is a keeper. Driven the CS, great drive, very involving and raw, but there is no way I would switch it for my Scuderia.

 

i backed out...started with a red CS, eventually upgraded to a blue Scud...sold it within a couple month and went back to CS.
Cost me alot more the second red CS and with alot more miles...should have stuck with the original one!

 

definitely not the speed/time around Spa or Silverstone...but the noise, the gearbox clunks when pushing up, the emptiness of the cabin etc. the rawness

AND with time the Strad's design gets better and better, the initial drawing from an architectural point of view is purer more so than the tortuous design of the Scud

 

These days neither the Scud or the CS are the last word in road going outright speed vs the latest crop of forced induction supercars like the 488's or the Mclaren 675LT's and 720's but does it even matter if your enjoying yourself and having fun?

I'd wager that the majority of drivers and owners haven't even scratched the surface when it comes to truely driving the pants off of their CS's or 430 Scuderia's properly, especially out on the track. Its ofcourse nice knowing you have the fastest car in the block to feed your ego but for true enjoyment it really doesn't matter very much, learn to properly use what you've got and you'll have a lot of enjoyment vs chasing endless power and torque figures (metered out by a computer regardless of what your doing on the human side of the equation, i.e. your not driving!).

Both are very capable and with a small amount of tweaking of the geo setup, ride height's and tires they can handle like you just wouldn't believe. I've been driving my particular example for over a decade (!) and still loving it!

I've never understood the comparisons about one car being significantly 'better' to drive than another. Really? That depends on what your preference is, both do however require significantly different approaches to driving to extracting the best from them. The CS loves rev's (thanks to its finely balanced race spec engine and titanium conrods, and while titanium missing from the Scuderia's engine, in its place is larger capacity and gobs more torque and power). You have to drive the CS more like a Lotus and keep the engine in its sweet spot and on the boil, carrying more speed in and out of corners to get the best out of it. Its not a torque monster like we've come to expect from more modern supercars but for me that doesn't make it any less enjoyable.

I've got a Bentley with nearly 700hp driving its 4wd chassis which is amusing in its own kind of way (6 litres, 12 cylinders and twin turbo's) but its not even close to the kind of enjoyment I get out of my lightweight 360...

 

I prefer the CS over the Scud. If I had to only have one, it would be the CS. Why? Raw visceral flighty. It is simply a more engaging car full of life and edginess. Full disclosure, I have twice as many Scud/16M as CS.

 

Trev says it all but if you don't track it don't even think about a CS as revving the arse of it on public roads is neither easy nor enjoyable

 

Lol, depends on how you view these things.

Keeping the engine in the sweet spot of torque really does make the CS engine sing like few others, its a biblical soundtrack really, espeically in these days of noise restrictions, more so in a tunnel so I wouldn't say its 'not enjoyable' but its really much harder to drive it quickly and progressively among fast cars [I'd say this means its maks it quite a challenge (!)] vs the Scud which typically uses its reserves of torque to help out the driver moder (and that's not even to mention its E-diff).

You can indeed drive a CS very progressively but its demands more of the driver and it requires more skill than car laden with more torque and power like the 430 Scuderia. I like both cars and its really chalk and cheese to decide which is better...

 

Different strokes for different folks...I'm usually looking for a spot to wind the engine out when in the CS. That sound in the upper rpm range is one of its best features

 

Although I can't answer the specific question, having both a Scud and Speciale, AND money considered, Scud all day long. Even money considered, I'd have a hard time letting that one go over the Speciale. I imagine it's the same for a CS.

 

CS for a raw driving experience. Speciale for performance. Scud for little bit of both

If I were to buy another fcar today, it would definitely be the CS, but no way I would sell my scud.

 

I would never go back from my Scud to a CS. My experience with a CS back to back to the Scuderia was a huge disappointment; a lot of noise about nothing. The engine is simply way too weak and the outdated transmissions is annoying, the rest is an average "ok" (chassis, brakes etc.). The CS for a "raw driving experience"; a popular statement which is for sure true, because the car has definitely nothing else to offer. Oh I forgot, the CS is "a clever investment"..., hmmm, the same as with the Scuderia, a lot of wishful thinking, I recommend to go in the casino, that makes more fun.

 

You could also state the same opinion about the 430 Scud vs a 458 Speciale, engine is way to weak, outdated transmission is annoying, rest is an average "ok"... etc... Personally I see this as a bit harsh but lets face it, Ferrari wouldn't sell the next "new" thing if there where not tangible improvements between models. Its bound to feel faster! The difference is about 20% in all areas. Enough to be noticeable.

My view is "Good enough for what exactly?". Everything is relative to expectations. None of these cars are anything other than toys for enjoyment. Focusing on Power is very dangerous thing, its like a drug (which all car companies know!), it corrupts you with its allure. Can you have too much of a good thing? Hmmm... possibly and car companies will keep selling it spoon fed in increments

The chassis is actually virtually identical between the 360 and 430 series, same balljoints, shocks, mounting points, basic Alcoa chassis itself, pretty much everything except for a few geometry tweaks and a few additional braces to make it 20% stiffer. A bit more camber and slightly wider tires make the real difference to available grip between the CS and Scuderia, both easily upgradable on either car.

Where the differences are here are actually in the electronics package which was significantly upgraded to allow deployment of the right amount of power without spinning you off the road via the E-Diff and upgraded Bosch ABS. Upping power required this since most people (who haven't tried to learn their cars chassis behaviour...) would really struggle to control the car with extra hp and torque through the rear wheels if there was no computer assistance helping them to apportion the right amount of useable power to the ground for the conditions available in and out of corners, regardless of what % of throttle you apply. That however is the rub (or the rob depending on how you see it) with computers taking over its a slippery slope. It starts to remove the human element, some of the challenge, the tactile feelings that you get with modern cars, thankfully at least Ferrari still allow you to turn things off.

Even with things like brakes you have to be careful since the move from 380mm front brakes to 398mm CCM's between the CS and the Scud (5% bigger discs but with a [surprise surprise] 20% wider sweeped pad area on th actual disc (!)... leads to more weight. Its a fine balance but with more power comes the requirement to shed the speed quicker, add 20% more power and you need 20% better stopping...

So basically the Scud is 20% faster than a stock CS. I actually upgraded my car to be faster than a stock Scud but my preferred route to faster was less weight and better handling, not more power and more electronics. It means I feel the chassis signaling its on the ragged edge, I sense the slip of the tires, I apply the corrections myself through careful modulation of the throttle, brakes and steering adjustments. Yes I'm doing more to keep the car driving progressively fast but this is more enjoyable for this enthusisast than simply point and squirt we are now seeing with the horsepower wars. Don't get me wrong I like fast cars too but I very much feel it begins to rob a lot of the things I look for in an enjoyable driving experience. I think the CS is therefore a keeper for these reasons and then it compliments the crazy fast modern cars like 488's and 675LTs and 720's of the world. Both are brilliant in their own way but they drive completely differently and I get different things from each car experience...

My big problem with cars with 500hp+ on the road is they begin to feel quite boring at even quite fast (very illegal) speeds, its only when you start driving them at 7/10th do they start to feel exciting and by that point your in license loosing territory...Even the CS suffers a bit from this so you really need to ask how fast do I really want to be driving on a public road? (Where 80% of the miles are covered for the average guy)... Tricky isn't it?

 

Please do not forget, there are a few Scuderia owners which A) can also drive their cars at the limit and B) which simply turn off the electronic assistants to get a maximum of feedback and fun (there is a small red lever on the steering wheel).

Let us be honest and objective, if you have the choice between a Scuderia and a CS, why the hell should someone go for the CS? As written by yourself, in many respects more or less the same technology. But, and this is obvious for everyone, in for a track oriented car decisive parameters the Scud has clear advantages: with its complete new high rev engine in the F136 ED specification superior power and torque capabilities, better brakes and with the F1-Superfast a breathtaking and unique transmission. You optimized your CS? Not happy with the "standard" performance capabilities? Excuse me, but I could not resist.

If someone likes the appearance from a CS more and the performance capabilities are not so important, yes, then go for the CS. But soberly considered speak no measurable facts for the CS.

My personal summary: considered in isolation, the CS is a masterpiece (you will not believe it, but I like this car). In comparison with its direct successor the CS is my second choice. In consideration with so many other today available alternatives (hyper light agile hp/torque-monsters) the CS is in a difficult position.

 

and to be be brutally honest this is probably a very good comparison for the money (OR LESS) https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/2018-porsche-911-gt3-touring-frankfurt-news/

 

time to get driving REAL and the one thing the CS most certainly doesnt have is 500 hp, most rolling tests are in reality max 380, the depreciation curve for a CS might accelerate once again

 

whereas at least with a SCUD you have 500 hp and a beautiful design