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  #6601  
Old 07-16-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by judealexander View Post
Any solutions for making the air conditioning work better?
An owner I know with a 25th, had his system updated. Pump, compressor etc. He know complains its too cold :-)
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  #6602  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:17 PM
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my example is the worst poss scenario,ex perhaps for middle east and Nevada /Arizona, But probably lots of things would help,to make a better system,
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  #6603  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:34 PM
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Nice photo, worthy to be hanged on a wall
Thank you, credit to ace photographer Webb Bland.

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Originally Posted by Ellagirl View Post
Beautiful shot. On the ac subject,you are doing good,try South Florida,right now,97 degrees.
Usually our California air is dry, but we are having a high humidity spell.

Who in their right mind drives a Countach in this weather? Rhetorical question.

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Originally Posted by Spyder-Man View Post
Joe, at least your air con works! To be honest, if I don't get out the QV sweating like I've gone 5 rounds with Tyson, then somethings wrong. Nice pic there fella.
Yes, I am grateful it blows some cool air, if not cold!

True, driving in the summer is a supplementary workout, no joke.

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Originally Posted by BBoyJmE View Post
Joe, do you have any clear images of the pop up light mechanism?
All I have is what you have seen, but Dugan Enterprises has @ 4 (and soon-to-be 5) Countachs there in various stages of disassembly, I will look next time and see if I can get you what you need.

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Originally Posted by judealexander View Post
Any solutions for making the air conditioning work better?
Raise the door?

Seriously, I'm sure the possibilities are endless, but I figure that if the AC is barely adequate in the 2 or 3 really hot months we have down here (we live by the coast) then it'll be just fine the remaining 9 or 10 months of the year when its quite cool or even cold. Besides, I'm not inclined to start re-inventing systems in the Countach unless absolutely neccesary, from my experience it always causes a compromise somewhere else, I'll live with it.

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Originally Posted by Spyder-Man View Post
An owner I know with a 25th, had his system updated. Pump, compressor etc. He know complains its too cold
There is something to be said for leaving well enough alone.
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  #6604  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by judealexander View Post
Any solutions for making the air conditioning work better?
Wil DeGroot @ Exoticars USA in New Jersey offers a conversion.

HLA12201 (ex-David Kean and ex-Bob Merrell) car had the conversion done back in 2002.

I got to try it out, and trust me, it would freeze your eyelashes off! The only problem, for those who want to keep their cars as close to original as they can, is that the spare tire has to be removed in order to accommodate all the new equipment in the front trunk.

Here is an image where you get an idea of what it looks like.

Mike
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  #6605  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:03 PM
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Wow. That looks like some serious addition there Mike. Not sure I would wish to go down that route. I'll just have to wear a mankini if required.
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  #6606  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:11 PM
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A friend of mine complained about his Countach being very hot inside. Taking a look at it the interior heater it was turned off. Just to make sure I had him open the front compartment, inspecting the valve in there I found the control cable was not actually moving the valve and the heater was in fact on. We closed the valve in the front compartment. He said that made a huge difference but it still was a warm ride, after all we are in Arizona and that is a big windshield and the air did not work.

Cheers Jim
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  #6607  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jalpa_Mike View Post
Wil DeGroot @ Exoticars USA in New Jersey offers a conversion.

HLA12201 (ex-David Kean and ex-Bob Merrell) car had the conversion done back in 2002.

I got to try it out, and trust me, it would freeze your eyelashes off! The only problem, for those who want to keep their cars as close to original as they can, is that the spare tire has to be removed in order to accommodate all the new equipment in the front trunk.
I know this car, and it's perfect example of solution-overkill, the saying Using an Elephant Gun to Kill a Fly comes to mind. You can either freeze in the cockpit or have a spare tire so you don't have to walk home in case of a flat, your choice!

Bear in mind this car was sold for @ $80k shortly before the work was done, at a time when these cars were nowhere near as valuable as they are now, and people were more willing to subject them to all manner of automotive vandalism, er, I mean modifications. As we all know, whenever a car is modified, it is usually irreversibly damaged along the way, and many valuable & now-unobtanium original components are discarded. Whenever the utterance "it can easily be put back" is given, my response is "well, then put it back, and we'll talk". As if to underscore my thoughts about this subject, as you know, ironically, this car with it's refrigerator-cold AC was sold to Switzerland!

I've actually looked into this AC issue years ago, and there are other issues besides originality & practicality.

If you "upgrade" the AC system, a question becomes, how much hp power-sap does the replacement unit result in depending on the increased size/capacity of the compressor and ancillary components?

For example, in a standard unmodified Countach with the engine running at idle @ 1,000 rpm, switch the AC on and see what happens. Try revving the engine and feel the response differential. Since we drive around at speeds when the engine is making a fraction of its rated power, the AC is sucking up a significant % of the engine's output at those lower revs. As such, in the cooler months I never switch on the AC in a Countach for this reason, as I prefer the sharp response of the engine when the AC unit is switched off, its much more responsive and revs better throughout the range, and is therefore more enjoyable - to me at least.

Long story short, IMHO, upgrading a Countach's AC system is neither desirable nor cost-effective, and for that reason, as I said earlier, I'll live with it. I think the disadvantages of changing the AC system oiutweigh the advantages of leaving it alone. I'll even drive the car in the cool early morning or evening hours of the summer, or wait for the cooler months to use it extensively.

My only question for HLA12201 would be - how much would it really cost to return it back to standard?

If I had to try and make a Countach AC work "better", I'd adopt an approach that was much more sympathetic, unobtrusive and discreetly behind-the-scenes using Lamborghini components, and, I would not give up my spare wheel! For example, the solution Rob mentioned using 25th components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder-Man View Post
Wow. That looks like some serious addition there Mike. Not sure I would wish to go down that route. I'll just have to wear a mankini if required
You won't be the first, Wilt Chamberlain drove his Countach around Beverly Hills in just his swimming trunks.
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  #6608  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MiuraP400 View Post
A friend of mine complained about his Countach being very hot inside. Taking a look at it the interior heater it was turned off. Just to make sure I had him open the front compartment, inspecting the valve in there I found the control cable was not actually moving the valve and the heater was in fact on. We closed the valve in the front compartment. He said that made a huge difference but it still was a warm ride, after all we are in Arizona and that is a big windshield and the air did not work.
You bring up a good point about the 'greenhouse effect' of that expansive windshield, and I daresay it's always worth remembering that in the summer sun that's going to be a tough one for any AC to overcome.

Also, the Countach's design & shape causes space for components to be at a premium, IMO it was quite a feat for the works to install the AC system that they did. As Bobby Wallace has been quoted, he wanted the Countach to be produced without any AC, but Stanzani and the powers that be differed. I think the thing to remember is that the Countach is a driver's car, one that is not meant to be a 'comfortable' conveyance per se.
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  #6609  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by joe sackey View Post
If I had to try and make a Countach AC work "better", I'd adopt an approach that was much more sympathetic, unobtrusive and discreetly behind-the-scenes using Lamborghini components, and, I would not give up my spare wheel! For example, the solution Rob mentioned using 25th components.
In Fact GLA12997 has already a newer AC compressor since the old one was leaking at the Joint.
The major problem on GLA12997 were never the AC components but all Countachs I've seen so far lost pressure in the AC system. Newly filled the AC worked great for about 3 month, latest after one year the system had to be refilled.
I had all lines replaced except one to the Dashboard control, most likely that was the slightly leaking one although we could never find a leak other than the compressor.
By also aware that it's a huge different which AC gas you are using, the new one needs other Joints, other oil etc. definitely something for the experts.

Last edited by raymondQV; 07-16-2017 at 11:17 PM.
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  #6610  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by raymondQV View Post
In Fact GLA12997 has already a newer AC compressor since the old one was leaking at the Joint.
The Major Problem on GLA12997 were never the AC components but all Countachs I've seen so far lost pressure. Newly filled the AC worked great for about 3 month, latest after one year the system had to be refilled.

I had all lines replaced except one to the Dashboard control, most likely that was the slightly leaking one although we could never find a leak other than the compressor.
By also aware that it's a huge different which AC gas you are using, the new one needs other Joints, other oil etc. definitely something for the experts.
That's true, its a service item you must charge every year, so far its blows cool air the best you can expect, Dugan Enterprises overhauled it and I'm reasonably confident it's doing the best it can.
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  #6611  
Old 07-17-2017, 08:40 AM
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In my experience everyone comes up with a better way to build a mouse trap. I also believe that an engineer, with more education and experience than me, sat down with the task of designing the A/C system and did so not intending to fail.
The volume of space in the cockpit of a Countach is small compared to a sedan yet the Lamborghini uses a similar compressor?
It has been my experience that many of the a/c systems in these now thirty year old cars were tampered with and poorly repaired. The components are by and large American and with some minimum detective work can be found in a NAPA catalogue.
Install them properly, vacuum pump the system down adequately, and PAG oil, and charge the system. I always replace receiver/driers when servicing a/c systems. They are metal canisters filled with desiccant and are meant to be disposable.
I have also found very little difference in the performance of refrigerant gases. I have been told that the change which was supposed to help the atmosphere is a myth Dow came up with because the patent for the old style gas was about to expire. Common sense not rocket science.
+1 to Joe's comments about originality.
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  #6612  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bertocchi View Post
In my experience everyone comes up with a better way to build a mouse trap. I also believe that an engineer, with more education and experience than me, sat down with the task of designing the A/C system and did so not intending to fail.
The volume of space in the cockpit of a Countach is small compared to a sedan yet the Lamborghini uses a similar compressor?
It has been my experience that many of the a/c systems in these now thirty year old cars were tampered with and poorly repaired. The components are by and large American and with some minimum detective work can be found in a NAPA catalogue.
Install them properly, vacuum pump the system down adequately, and PAG oil, and charge the system. I always replace receiver/driers when servicing a/c systems. They are metal canisters filled with desiccant and are meant to be disposable.
I have also found very little difference in the performance of refrigerant gases. I have been told that the change which was supposed to help the atmosphere is a myth Dow came up with because the patent for the old style gas was about to expire. Common sense not rocket science.
+1 to Joe's comments about originality.
Agreed ,when i bought my car 11 years ago,i went thru the ac system,and did exactly what you said reg detective work, Ultimate wanted2 grand for the compressor, my innhouse parts guy traced it to Sanden part# bla bla for aprox300 $ anyway,no doubt there is ducting issues and on and on ,but absolutly well done cinsidering the extreme limited space,also a very challenging run with lines routed right next to the exhaust manifold thru the door sill and all the way back,once freshley charged it works ok on a 70-80 degree day, but i would never expect it to keep up at100 or so, i dint take my car out in that type of heat,my dash is perfect,no shrink, not for long if left ouside in Florida summer heat,
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  #6613  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:45 AM
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Countach A/C improvements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertocchi View Post
In my experience everyone comes up with a better way to build a mouse trap. I also believe that an engineer, with more education and experience than me, sat down with the task of designing the A/C system and did so not intending to fail.
The volume of space in the cockpit of a Countach is small compared to a sedan yet the Lamborghini uses a similar compressor?
It has been my experience that many of the a/c systems in these now thirty year old cars were tampered with and poorly repaired. The components are by and large American and with some minimum detective work can be found in a NAPA catalogue.
Install them properly, vacuum pump the system down adequately, and PAG oil, and charge the system. I always replace receiver/driers when servicing a/c systems. They are metal canisters filled with desiccant and are meant to be disposable.
I have also found very little difference in the performance of refrigerant gases. I have been told that the change which was supposed to help the atmosphere is a myth Dow came up with because the patent for the old style gas was about to expire. Common sense not rocket science.
+1 to Joe's comments about originality.
ALL TRUE.
I have recently found success (car is comfortable on 95-100F day) when replacing the entire system (compressor/condenser/evaporator/dryer/fans+all hoses) with new OEM items. I think the biggest improvement from this was achieved by uprating the fans for the condenser and evaporator with new units ,same OEM manufacturer, (SPAL) but more modern equivalents that appear the same but move a higher volume of air while drawing less current from the not so overly robust electrical system. If you go this route, you won't be dissapointed. You also won't completely butcher your car.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:56 PM
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I did all this,Exept the fans,wich i will defentley do sometime soon,best advice/experience given in a long time,makes perfect sense, Thanks
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Call View Post
I think the biggest improvement from this was achieved by uprating the fans for the condenser and evaporator with new units ,same OEM manufacturer, (SPAL) but more modern equivalents that appear the same but move a higher volume of air while drawing less current from the not so overly robust electrical system. If you go this route, you won't be dissapointed. You also won't completely butcher your car.
The same Counts for the Radiator fans, the modern one use less current and have more throughput. GLA12997 has the upgraded 25th fans since years.
http://www.countach.ch/fans.html
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:14 PM
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I love this thread. I was told by my service chap that the refrigerant used today is not compatible with the system installed. So would require an upgrade of components.

The fan upgrade for engine is on the to do list.
R
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Old 07-17-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyder-Man View Post
I love this thread. I was told by my service chap that the refrigerant used today is not compatible with the system installed. So would require an upgrade of components.

The fan upgrade for engine is on the to do list.
R
The refrigerant used most commonly today (R134A) IS compatible with the A/C system originally fitted to all Countach. Switching over to this refrigerant will require you to completely evacuate the system, change out all of the O rings, replace the dryer, and replace the compressor oil. The shaft seal in the old Sanden compressor can be a weak point in the system, so it's not a bad idea to replace the compressor (@$200-$300). The new compressor will be R134A ready right out of the box.

R12 refrigerant is still available in some places. It's generally a lot pricier than R134A, but it does work a better.

Having said all of that, Swapping out the fans for the condenser and evaporator will dramatically improve the performance of the A/C system in the Countach (once everything else is in order)
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  #6618  
Old 07-17-2017, 04:04 PM
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Thanks for the info Michael. I could not remember the different types. I think the older R12 type is outlawed in the UK now. However, I'm no expert in these matters and always seek advice and opinion from you kind gents.
You'll be pleased to know that the gear knob you provided is at home in my baby. Doing a great job! ;-)
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  #6619  
Old 07-17-2017, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Call View Post
You also won't completely butcher your car
That's always a plus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Call View Post
it's not a bad idea to replace the compressor (@$200-$300). The new compressor will be R134A ready right out of the box.
On a 30-year-old car this just makes sense.

I see on page 23 of the owner's manual it says:
"…. generally use 1st speed of the fan"

The page is Titled "Air circulation from (the Mimran) GLA12997", but is there an earlier version of the QV manual?
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:28 PM
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