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  #21  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew R. View Post
Thanks for sharing your story, very cool... and you must be very proud! Nice to see the car going back to the original color.

Feel free to give me a call, happy to help with some of the small details that you can easily remedy to be as original.

Again, congrats and look forward to seeing the car on the road!
Thanks, Andrew. Feel free to post what you see that is incorrect here so that everyone can benefit.
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:03 AM
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Per request of Chris, I am posting some of my comments on photos of this car here so that others can benefit from the information.

Regarding the driveshafts, which have the same color as the rear springs (and shocks if they have not been rebuild and repainted by Koni - which many people leave to the Koni orange instead of painting like Lamborghini did during production of the cars)... here are some pics.

The Lamborghini factory painted the driveshafts after assembly. I powder coated mine before assembly, and then touched up with liquid paint areas taped off for assembly where appropriate. The color match was done from sampling an NOS piece from Lamborghini... which was compared and verified by carefully cleaning an area of the existing parts on my car.

So in this photo of the finished work, I had not yet touched up the spots where the snap-rings are. (The before photo is what the shaft looked like when pulling off of the car.)

Some people have called this over-kill because they just used a spray can, but if you want the job done right... it takes time!

Regarding the u-joints. You can buy spicer u-joints, and then have the cups ground down just a few thousandths (a center-less grinding shop can do this easily)
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Last edited by Andrew R.; 05-19-2017 at 07:12 AM.
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:31 AM
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Here are some before and after photos from another Miura... not everything was done in the area, just items that needed attention for maintenance purposes, but since I was touching them - they were done properly.

-New wheel bearings
-Axles, originally clean steel.. but did a black oxide treatment
-Brake rotors, originally clean steel... but did black oxide treatment (brakes not yet bedded in to wear off the black oxide on the contact area)
-complete rebuild of brakes with new pads & rubber lines
-complete rebuild of shocks (internals done by Koni authorized shop)
-greasing of upper & lower ball joints (yes you can do the upper with a grease needle attached to the grease gun)
-cleaning and re-plating of the original nuts that were removed for this service work
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File Type: jpg compare.jpg (74.3 KB, 266 views)
File Type: jpg Miura work - before & after.jpg (72.3 KB, 271 views)
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:27 AM
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Andrew, thanks for your comments. Can I ask what model and serial number Miura you are referencing to make certain we are comparing apples to apples? Also, in your last post can you clarify what you are seeing specifically in the work that was done to the suspension and brake assembly that is not to original spec as it was not clear to me from you post. Thank you.
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omgjon View Post
Here is more pictures of the metal work, media blast etc.
Bravo Jon, I know this is a labor of love for you and we'll help ensure all the finishes are correct-for-period.

To that end, Leo is correct Miura #3150 P400 the drive shafts should be refinished to make the period-correct.

Many people suggest that the only correct color is is the Azzuro Clielo (light blue) that is commonly asserted, but that's not always correct because Lamborghini NEVER had just one single finishing application for all components during the production run of any given Miura variant. If they ran out of light blue paint and Luigi brought back darker blue paint, guess what they did? They used darker blue paint! Here is another sampling of an original unit for comparison, and I'm happy to come down in person and deliberate over this.
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File Type: jpg dsb.jpg (359.1 KB, 237 views)
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cnpapa24 View Post
Here is the history on the car:

HISTORY

1967 - Telaio 3150, motore 1370, 74th Miura built, delivered Oct 5, 1967 to Roberto Carpanelli (Lamborghini's Rome concessionaire). Verde/Nero.

1974 - Imported to the US via an airline pilot based in North Carolina.

1978 - Sold to Lamborghini collector Jack Robinson in Arizona to join his Miura SV. He repainted the car Giallo Miura. The car was then featured in Automobile Quarterly vol 23, No. 1 (1985), and pictured on AQ poster "Lamborghini - The Quest for Perfection".

1985 - Engine rebuilt by famed racing engineer Alf Francis (Stirling Moss's F1 mechanic)

1986 - Bought by Dave Gamret, Ford Motor Co's Design Engineer, who also owned a Countach LP400.

1989 - Gamret had the car repainted yellow with correct PPG Giallo Miura paint he got directly Bertone SpA.

1990 - Owned briefly by renowned Ferrari collector and 250 GTO owner Chris Cox.

1991 - Bought by Nick England from Chris Cox with mileage just @ 5,800 km.

2014 - Bought by me from Nick England with mileage @ 10,500 km, documented over the 23 year ownership.

2016 - Nut and Bolt restoration commenced.
Chris I don't know many Miura P400 with just 6,000 miles!

In fact, I can think of just 2 other P400 with lower mileage, one a very original example with @ 4,000 miles that lives literally 5 mins from me, and another with just 2,000 miles that is still with its original owner (!) that lives @ 30 mins away.
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  #27  
Old 05-19-2017, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R. View Post
the driveshafts, which have the same color as the rear springs (and shocks if they have not been rebuild and repainted by Koni
That's not entirely correct.

First of all, some P400 had Armstrong shocks and then some had Konis.

The P400 Armstrong shock shown has been seen in a number of different color combinations, as seen below, both correct for a P400.

The first image shows the much-vaunted 3216, a car that still remains with its original owner with just 2,000 miles on the clock. You can see the Armstrong shocks are orange, and the (front) springs are green - rears are light blue.

The second images shows 3610, and you can see the Armstrong shocks are silver, and the rear springs are blue.

Of course, we should note that the P400 production started with Armstrong shocks, which were subsequently replaced with Koni shocks (probably since Armstrongs were not rebuildable) but the cutoff during P400 production is not clear.

You can tell the difference at the bottom of the shock when the car is in the air because the Armstrong shock has a round shoulder at the bottom of the tube, whereas the Koni has a square shoulder at the bottom of the tube.

Konis were typically painted orange, but, I have seen at least one original car with Konis painted blue!

The point is, there were constant ongoing production variances throughout Miura production from P400 to SV and it is simply wrong to say "xyz is correct for all Miuras" or even for all P400.
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File Type: jpg The_Miura_that_time_forgot_(3216)-14.jpg (148.5 KB, 237 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_2494.jpg (150.3 KB, 238 views)
File Type: jpg 1223.jpg (152.4 KB, 237 views)
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  #28  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R. View Post
-Axles, originally clean steel.. but did a black oxide treatment
-Brake rotors, originally clean steel... but did black oxide treatment (brakes not yet bedded in to wear off the black oxide on the contact area)
Any reason why black oxide was used liberally to cover everything including hub spline, brake contact area and even the spindle threads?

Surely the more sympathetic & professional way to do this would be to mask off the areas that do not need this application?

Later variant used for illustration, but you get the idea.
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File Type: jpg 5656.jpg (130.8 KB, 231 views)
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  #29  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cnpapa24 View Post
Can I ask what model and serial number Miura you are referencing to make certain we are comparing apples to apples?
Chris, speaking of apples to apples, here is my neighbor's 3598, and it also has a basket-weave interior, except in Senape.

Beautifully original P400, and terrific reference point.
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  #30  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:17 PM
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Progress pictures from Day 1 of reassembly
Jon, as you go along, if there is anything that requires an original reference point, 3216 The Miura That Time Forgot (3216) | Joe Sackey Classics and 3598 Blu Miura (3598) | Joe Sackey Classics are within the chassis number range of 3150 and just minutes away, so I'm happy to use them to verify anything.
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File Type: jpg PROFILE.jpg (176.9 KB, 225 views)
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  #31  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by joe sackey View Post
Any reason why black oxide was used liberally to cover everything including hub spline, brake contact area and even the spindle threads?

Surely the more sympathetic & professional way to do this would be to mask off the areas that do not need this application?

Later variant used for illustration, but you get the idea.
Yes, items that were clean metal were treated with black oxide - this was a choice of mine that many others do instead of leaving as clean metal to rust. It looks like your example shows paint on the rotors, is that more or less correct than black oxide? They were clean steel from the factory.

Regarding the brake contact area, it was clean metal again as soon as I drove the car.

Regarding sympathetic and professional.. please post photos of the details of Miuras that you have consulted on the restoration of, it would be a good reference for the guys who are currently doing restorations.
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Last edited by Andrew R.; 05-19-2017 at 11:05 PM.
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  #32  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by joe sackey View Post
Bravo Jon, I know this is a labor of love for you and we'll help ensure all the finishes are correct-for-period.

To that end, Leo is correct Miura #3150 P400 the drive shafts should be refinished to make the period-correct.

Many people suggest that the only correct color is is the Azzuro Clielo (light blue) that is commonly asserted, but that's not always correct because Lamborghini NEVER had just one single finishing application for all components during the production run of any given Miura variant. If they ran out of light blue paint and Luigi brought back darker blue paint, guess what they did? They used darker blue paint! Here is another sampling of an original unit for comparison, and I'm happy to come down in person and deliberate over this.
The driveshafts were all done in light blue. Sand or scrape that paint that you believe to be darker blue and you will find that it's light blue (if it's original)

With it being oil soaked and grimy, the color of the blue looks like it varies on the same piece shown in the photo.
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Last edited by Andrew R.; 05-19-2017 at 09:41 PM.
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  #33  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joe sackey View Post
That's not entirely correct.

First of all, some P400 had Armstrong shocks and then some had Konis.

The P400 Armstrong shock shown has been seen in a number of different color combinations, as seen below, both correct for a P400.

The first image shows the much-vaunted 3216, a car that still remains with its original owner with just 2,000 miles on the clock. You can see the Armstrong shocks are orange, and the (front) springs are green - rears are light blue.

The second images shows 3610, and you can see the Armstrong shocks are silver, and the rear springs are blue.

Of course, we should note that the P400 production started with Armstrong shocks, which were subsequently replaced with Koni shocks (probably since Armstrongs were not rebuildable) but the cutoff during P400 production is not clear.

You can tell the difference at the bottom of the shock when the car is in the air because the Armstrong shock has a round shoulder at the bottom of the tube, whereas the Koni has a square shoulder at the bottom of the tube.

Konis were typically painted orange, but, I have seen at least one original car with Konis painted blue!

The point is, there were constant ongoing production variances throughout Miura production from P400 to SV and it is simply wrong to say "xyz is correct for all Miuras" or even for all P400.
Yes Joe, I know the early Miuras had Armstrongs. My example is of the Konis. I will post some photos of original Armstrongs for everyone's reference.

There were variations during production, but not as many as people think.

Regarding the color on Koni's, they were all "Koni orange" FROM Koni, and then painted at the Lamborghini factory before installation on the car, either green for the front, or light blue for the rear. For all of the Koni's on the Miuras. Oddly, they did not paint the top mounting loop, that stayed orange. A factory old timer told me that this was because they often dipped the shocks in paint up to the rod gland, but did not going higher than that, so the shaft and upper mount stayed clean.

You often see them in orange because when people through the years had them rebuilt, they would come back from koni in orange (Koni would clean and respray them and put a fresh decal on them), and people would just leave them that way and reinstall on the car.
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Last edited by Andrew R.; 05-19-2017 at 09:53 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:43 PM
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Putting in the lifeblood today, new wiring harness we made.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:01 PM
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Thanks Andrew and Joe for your feedback. A few good catches that are easily correctable at this stage of the process. We will circle back on some of these items and redo to factory spec. Much appreciated!
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:22 PM
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Regarding the Armstrong shocks on the early Miuras, here is exactly what the fronts (green spring) and rears (light blue spring) should look like. Also notice the matching color of the driveshaft in the photo of the rear shock. Also note the color the shock bodies.

*Note: you see that some use the wire mesh spacers, and some do not.. they can be used for fine tuning of the ride height of the car.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Front Armstrong.jpg (27.8 KB, 203 views)
File Type: jpg Rear (3).jpg (43.4 KB, 210 views)
File Type: jpg Rear (2).jpg (34.3 KB, 208 views)
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Last edited by Andrew R.; 05-19-2017 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:25 PM
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Anyone have a source for the correct wire mesh used for the shocks?
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew R. View Post
Yes, items that were clean metal were treated with black oxide
Understood, I was simply curious about the liberal application of black oxide to cover everything from hub spline, brake contact area and even the spindle threads, but recognize that individual choice was the reason as you state.

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Originally Posted by Andrew R. View Post
The driveshafts were all done in light blue. Sand or scrape that paint that you believe to be darker blue and you will find that it's light blue (if it's original)
We can agree to disagree like gentlemen. My experience with Miuras has taught me that there were constant ongoing production variances throughout Miura production, and to say "the driveshafts were ALL done in light blue" is indisputably incorrect. Furthermore, the driveshafts in the images provided by Leo Miura #3150 P400 and by myself Miura #3150 P400 show zero traces of Azzuro Cielo anywhere despite their original and paint-chipped nature.

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Originally Posted by Andrew R. View Post
There were variations during production
Yes, there were, the extent to which is clearly the subject of some conjecture. We have seen in other makes & models where people try to 'standardize' the accepted knowledge over time, but my feeling is that the Miura is really one of those cars where you have to know what was correct for the individual car, as I find literally no two Miuras to be exactly alike in detail even if they came with the same basic color specification.

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Originally Posted by Andrew R. View Post
Regarding the Armstrong shocks on the early Miuras, here is exactly what the fronts (green spring) and rears (light blue spring) should look like
Some of the early P400 had Armstrongs with the tops in a silver color (such as 3610 posted).
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:45 AM
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These are by far the best threads! Amazing work.
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  #40  
Old 05-20-2017, 01:17 PM
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Basketweave vinyl for Miura Seats

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Originally Posted by cnpapa24 View Post
Original interior with basketweave inlays were with the car. Basketweave is to be reused on new interior as it is NLA.
Hi Chris,

Why are you saying that the Basketweave vinyl is NLA ? is it really NLA in USA nowadays ?
(I had in mind that Reoriginals was still offering it...)
In Europe, we are stil able to source freshly remade basketweave vinyl for our cars restoration.

This product was commonly used in many European passenger cars from the 70's (Alfa-Romeo, Peugeot, etc...).

To date, I've identified EU-based Companies offering the exact basketweave vinyl used on the Miura in the Senape, Beige, dark Brown, and Black colors - unfortunately not the blue color as used on the bak of the seats of my P400S (see pict.)... But perhaps Bruno Paratelli - in Italy - has it ?...

And congrats for your great job and the fact of sharing it here !
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File Type: jpg New Basketweave Vinyl Black.jpg (112.7 KB, 149 views)
File Type: jpg Red Peugeot Basketweave Vinyl.jpg (200.0 KB, 155 views)
File Type: jpg Blue Basketweave Miura #4635 original - copie.jpg (116.9 KB, 150 views)
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