Hi guys, I m considering buying a Indy here in Italy, and I ve been offered a 4700 and 4900. I already know the 4700 and I m enthusiast about it but I don't know the 4900. Can you tell me in your opinion which are the good points about the 4900? As far as the 4900 there s a choice of 2, lhm or dot4 Thanks
The 4.9 engine isn't much different from the 4.7, so nothing major there, just a bit more powerful (its a downgraded Ghibli SS 4.9 engine). The 4.2 engine is also adequate for most people. The Indy comes with the split dashboard (first generation) and the straight dashboard (second generation). The second generation (named Indy America) only came with the 4.9 engine, new air conditioning system, gearbox (ZF 5 speed I think) and bigger 15" wheels. The second generation (Indy America) at some point (1973?) also changed to the LHM citroen system. Overall, I would personally go for normal Indy and avoid the LHM stuff, which diminishes the originality of the Maserati brand, lowers resale price and you would not only require a Maserati mechanic, but also a citroen mechanic (or someone who knows both). Plus, the LHM system is a big mess of kilometres of pipes all over the car, very complex and something that if it goes bad, then the entire car is compromised.
Maserati Blue, The above is typically written by somebody that does not understand that there are more than a million Citroëns produced with this high pressure system in place and it is only after fitting the LHM system to the Indy that one had excellent brakes on the car! It is normally more important how quick a car can stop than accelerate.... It is not Citroën that imposed their system to Maserati, it was ing Alfieri that was so taken by the performance that he volunteered to put it on his cars! Anything that is given into the hands of somebody that does not know is exposed to the risk of being demolished, even the bicycle of my daughter! Ciao, Bart
that means nothing really. Fitting it into more cars means the mistake was made into a really big mistake, as history shows us. better brakes is very loosely defined here. The danger of the LHM system loosing pressure and resulting in a death trap was too great. So I'm not sure I would want to drive a ticking time bomb. because Alfieri made that mistake, it does not make it right. It was still a mistake. It diminishes the value of the cars, dilutes the brand name and overall the LHM is a bad system of silly long tubes running around the car (extra weight, complexity, etc), while at the same time you are left with the possibility that it will die on you (and in many cases, you'll loose your headlights as well, if the LHM system powers the lifting system of popup headlights). whatever...
calm down. so like, some do not. my late Indy had the brakes. I just could not find anyone to work on it here
Maserati Blue, I get that you don't like Citroëns, you have clearly stated this for some time... But do you have to repeat it in nearly every post you make? Is bashing Citroën your religion? Did you wake up one night hearing God say...Maserati Bluuuuee....you have to preach to the mass that Citroen Brakes are no goood....you can only use the weak Bonaldi brake vacum servo to build brake pressure if you want to enter Heaven.... What I am trying to say here, with a bit of humor, is that your pitch is getting old, it is clearly wrong, and you are purposely damaging the heritage of Maserati with your trolling. Manuel 76, when I bought my 73 Indy4900 (LHM) last year, I decided to buy this car because of the Citroën brakes! Citroën brakes are 110% reliable if you service them like they should, and the LHM setup in a 4900 is consisting of 2 brake spheres, one accumulator sphere a pressure regulator and a hydraulic pump. All the parts needed are no longer than 3-4 postal days away, and I don't think that Campana could match that if you need to order any Bonaldi parts. Manuel 76, in regards to deciding on what car you should buy, a good standard is to buy the best you can find, the 4700 got a different engine note than the 4900, 4700 revs more freely. It all boils down to what you find is the right combination for you! Drive them both, and take the time\cost to do a proper survey on both cars to find out if they have any hidden snags that will cost you money and grief. Compression test both engines. The Indy is a fantastic GT, comfortable car to drive for hours on highways as well as fun to drive on twisty roads, surprisingly modern in feel. I would have bought a car with servo, the early cars didn't have servo steering as standard. Good luck and please post pictures. Kind regards Kim Norway
Bundas, the next time you end up with a Maserati with LHM, take a trip down to the local airport and have a chat with an airplane mechanic. You will see that these mechanics understand the concept of hydraulics, because planes are full of them. They will be more than able to do whatever you need done on your LHM circuits if you don't want to do it yourself (IMHO I would think it would take you a couple of days to read up on it to be able to service the system on your own) Kind regards Kim
Hmmmmm LOL We'll be having this "discussion" with Blue till w'ere all blue in the face ... I haven't driven an Indy with the LHM system. Were these produced before or after Detomaso arrived? My understanding is that it's just the braking system? Modern cars are far more complex than any LHM equipped car from that era. If one is confused by the system then take it to any airplane mechanic or earth moving/heavy equipment mechanic. If you can understand how a backhoe works you'll have no problem with a LHM equipped car. Does Indy 4.9 = LHM? I never thought so but ... In any event I think a LHM Indy is somewhat difficult to find. 4.9 will also have a bit more torque but some folks claim the smaller capacity V8's spin a bit nicer. I agree with earlier posters, I doubt you'll even notice that possibility since this is more of GT boulevard cruiser anyway.
hehe Point taken! You said it nicely (and with a touch of humour) and you are right that there is no need to advertise the LHM problems. But, my "pitch" is definitely not wrong and I believe that we should tell the truth to newcomers who don't know much about classic Maseratis of that era. They should be warned about the shortcomings of LHM and how it could affect the resale value of their car.
I realize that you've gotten rid of your cars because you can no longer work on them and had too many but you're mechanical right? You could have just tackled this yourself. People over here seem to think this system requires a nuclear engineer or rocket scientist? The good auto parts shops I go into have the Petrosin brand of fluid for them because it's a technology used in Rolls Royces for many years. My god folks we put a man on the moon! Even the Chinese can do that now and Americans, plus some sissy Europeans , are afraid of a little old hydraulic system?
The only shortcoming I know of is brake pedal feel and that's a legit thing to some people. Well there is one other. Some folks will not stop reminding you about how awful and failure prone the system is. That alone might be enough to sway some folks ... Tell me, do you take points off in a concours for cars equipped with this system ... The anti-corrosion capabilities of this system is not to be scoffed at. When I disassembled my 10 year old 3000 mile museum piece Bora's brake system out of genuine concern I found zero issues and simply reassembled it. A car with a standard brake fluid based system would not fare nearly as well. The only thing you have to do periodically is have the spheres recharged or replaced. Fluid changed are not as frequent when compared with a brake fluid based system.
Staatsof, There are 300 Indy4900's produced to my knowledge, of these only the late cars had LHM, from Jan 73 onwards, making the LHM's pretty rare, some claim 21 is the number of Indy's with LHM. It is just the braking system, it is not connected with anything else. The lamps on the Indy are like the Ghibli, electrical not Hydraulic like on the Khamsin, Merak & Bora. Attached a picture of behind the scenes in the left front wheel arch, behind the wheel and behind a shield. Depressurize the system on the regulator (on the right) using 13mm pipe, The 2 brake spheres (on the left of the picture), takes 15 minutes to change, the accumulator sphere (on the right) takes another 5 minutes spend 2 more to bleed the system of air and that is all that is needed on a 6-7 year cyclus besides perhaps changing the LHM fluid every 50 000 km or if it is dirty. The LHM Hydraulic pump is almost unbreakable, but if you need to change it, (I have never done that on any Citroen or Maserati I've owned) it's just as easy as changing the alternator on these cars. Kind regards Kim Image Unavailable, Please Login
Maserati Blue, Manuel76 is not a Maserati newbie, he is as I understand it a Maserati Mexico owner living in Italy. All I want for Christmas is that you tone down your Anti-Citroën-Crusade till atleast post New Year Herr Blue
An acceptable request and one I would probably follow for a lot longer than New Years. So, did I mention how the new Ghibli (mini-quattroporte) shares a lot with a certain Chrysler car?... heh just messing with you
I'm not taking the Chrysler bait Maserati Blue, I am 100% concentrating on the Citroën Era Maserati's. My gamble is that once you retire the crusade the Citroën era Maseratis will be the real collectables Sinking money into these cars is more fun than not winning the lottery anyway kind regards Kim
Cant help but agree Bart on the citroenised 4.9 what other people dont realsie is just how many other car manufactured cars with Citroen based syspension systems. Hydropneumatic suspension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia What else isnt written any where is that LHM surpasses any synthetic automotive fluid in performance and only in aviation did they go to esterfied synthetics for different reasons. The other little known fact about the Citroen system is has up to 5 full brake applictions after the engine stops. However I do agree buy the best car you can afford its the cheapest! Graeme
I do wish that the two brake spheres on the Bora were of the spin on type instead of those fussy adapter fittings that Maserati employed. The main accumulator is a snap to change but these are not so easy. On cars with the Bosch actuator cylinders you do need to be prepared to replace or rebuild those. They were as poor component choice. If only they had threaded covers on the end! Those replacement ones from Australia? have that. Has anyone on here used those?
No Bosch Micro Hydraulic actuator cylinders on the Indy. The only ones of the serial produced cars that has these actuators are the Merak (for the lights), Bora (for the pedal group and lights) & Khamsin (lights & seat controls). Staatsof, I believe Gopp installed the AUS improved micro hydraulic actuators on one of his Khamsins or one of his Meraks. Kind regards Kim
my bank account is really taken a hit this year on restoring/repair/ five V12 Ferrari, + 8 more has removed $100,000 from what is/should b my retirement fund. that was enough to spur a sale. so 12 moved out to others
Hi Kim, I didn't install new hydraulics on my Khamsin, just overhauled the Bosch micro switches. It's really easy, but it can be a bit time consuming to get the brass bushings out. Both the seals and bushings are cheaply available from MIE. The hydraulic cylinders for the lamp pods can be replaced with industrial parts standardized for tractors. These are a bit bulky, but will require only minor modifications to fit the Merak or Khamsin. No modifications on the car is needed, and the cost was about 25% of the asking price for the NZ cylinders. Khamsin #US.1000 has been using this solution for years, and it's working great. Only noticeable difference is a bit slower operating for lifting and lowering the pods, because of bigger volume in the cylinders. For next season I'll use the same cylinders on Khamsin #008, because I have a slight leak on both sides now. The original parts will be placed on the shelf and it's easy to fit later if needed. Be aware that these cylinders will not fit for the seat lifting mechanism on the Khamsin because it's too big. See you soon! Cheers Marius
Hi Marius, Your post is fascination because I've always wanted to find some industrial substitutes at least for the headlamps on my Bora. Could you share with us the specific details of the ones you used?
