New oil leak on 3500GT | FerrariChat

New oil leak on 3500GT

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by lavaux, Aug 4, 2014.

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  1. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    Coming home from a Sunday trip with my 3500GT, I moved the car onto my wooden ramp with about 10% slope. I stalled the engine, turned it on again and did the last few inches. Then I cranked up the beginning of the ramp in order to get the car level.
    When I then had a look below the engine, there was a oil swamp of 10 inches. On inspection I found that from the left side of the engine oil must has been spitted out.
    I checked the oil level and it was at maximum, where it had been before.
    My explanation was and still is that when the engine stalled with the car inclined 10%, a rear crank must have hit the oil in the rear of the crankcase and thrown it out somewhere.
    The breather was dry. The highest oily place was between the cylinderhead and the motor bloc, where the chain runs.
    I cleaned everything, drained the oil and put in a new charge of oil, this time only a few millimeter above minimum.
    The next day I found again an oil swamp under the engine, but with less oil spoiled all over. Turned on the engine and had quite a bit of burned-oil smoke from the exhaust.
    As I had filled the engine when cold, the new oil must have stayed quite some time in the upper part of the cylinder head and probably some oil has run down along the valve shafts.
    On a new engine start next day there was no smoke whatssoever. But there is still oil leaking out between the cylinderhead and the motorbloc, at the left front corner.

    I know very little about that engine. From the parts list one could conclude, that there is a gasket running all along the border of the mcylinderhead, and that there are other gaskets for the cylinders. Not one only gasket for sealing cylinders, waterway and oilways.

    My question: is there a not too expensive way to stop that leak? I have removed and successfully restored the cylinderhead of a Jaguar Mk2, but I had a good workshop-manual.
    If I need to remove the cylinderhead, I will only do it if I can get a detailed instruction of how to do it.

    Can somebody give me good advise?
    Wilfried
     
  2. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2004
    1,851
    Seattle
    Full Name:
    Carguytour
    First I would recommend that you take the car to a specialist for an assessment. Then we can go on from there.
    Are you sure its the rubber water seal leaking oil? Perhaps it could be the oil pressure gauge line fitting leaking? Just a thought.
    FGM
     
  3. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    Do you call the seal that goes around the engine between motor bloc and cylinderhead the "rubber water seal"? The catalogue calls it "Nr.23 Guarnizione per testa cilindri a basamenti".
    It is certainly there where the oil leaks out during days when the engine is at rest. Must be the oil that has been thrown to the inside of the valve cover.
    The question is, how to replace this seal?
    Has somebody written an instruction manual, how to remove and refit the cylinder head.
    Are these seals available? Has anybody had the same problem with leaks there?
    Wilfried
     
  4. fgsavoia

    fgsavoia Karting

    Jul 2, 2011
    179
    Milano, Italy
    Full Name:
    Francesco
    Wilfried,

    I didn’t understand at what gasket you’re pointing to. The cylinder head gasket alone, however it is damaged, can’t justify such huge oil leak (as you say): remember that the head benefits only of a minimum percentage of the engine oil: into the head just some “oil vapours” arrive, and that’s not true for the Maserati engine only but for every car engine of that period.

    Generally speaking, such huge oil leaks are caused by a crankcase seal failure or oil sump gasket or, like Portenos has just said, by a damaged oil pressure gauge line fitting or, for dry sumps, by some damaged oil hose.

    I think that some detailed photos (head from the front and both sides) could help in evaluating what’s the problem.

    Francesco
     
  5. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    Hi Francesco,
    I have just checked now: the seal I am concerned about is rubber. There are about 6mm of the material protuding outside. Seems to be about 2mm thick, still quite flexible. I have again cleaned that region and the had the engine going a minute. Will see where exactly it is "creaping" out. I say creaping, because at rest the leak is little, but lasting long.
    Would it be possible to swell that rubber seal in place?
    Wilfried
     
  6. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    91,522
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Take FGM's advice. The head gasket arrangement on these engines is not a normal run of the mill design. You can get yourself in a LOT of trouble quickly if you don't know this engine well. Even a decent mechanic can. So find one well versed in these six cylinder engines and save yourself a lot more grief than you already have.

    Perhaps Gene O'Gorman will pipe up and give you more clues as to why as I'm not qualified on this one, just enough to know better.
     
  7. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    I notice, that the rubber gasket stands out on the left side front corner about 6 mm. Is this normal, i.e. is the gasket so much larger, or has it slipped out in this corner and does therefore not any more fulfill its purpose? I also find a "tear" of black stuff that has run down at the suspected place and has solidified.
    Wilfried
     
  8. Volante 43

    Volante 43 Karting

    Nov 8, 2011
    73
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Rudolf J Visser
    @ Wilfried, all the 2-ohc 6-inline engines are the same like Aston, Alfa, Jaguar and Maserati, only the chainspanners are different.
    Lift the head throw away the rubber swollen gasket and those brass fire rings, and use a nice new composite gasket.

    If you have any problem send me a pm.

    Cheers Rudy.




    Maserati 3500/3700 Zylinderkopfdichtung NEU!! | eBay
     
  9. eogorman

    eogorman Formula Junior

    May 10, 2005
    322
    Buhl, ID
    Full Name:
    Eugene O'Gorman
    Wilford, normally the problem you are having is caused by the head not having the grooves cut into it after the head has been machined for flatness. The grooves will trap the little balls that are part of the head gasket system. While this multipart gasket is a lot more work in my opinion it is worth it and will give no problems if done right. The brass fire rings do an excellent job of sealing the cylinders they must be measured to be sure they are all the same thickness. The rubber gasket(which now should be Viton) needs to be .010 thicker than the fire rings which give a good seal. I use a copper spray on the fire rings mainly to hold them in place when the head is put on.
    Jacques at Maserati Source has done a lot of work developing a one piece head gasket and has run engine hard with them and claims no problems. I do not know anything about the one piece gasket mentioned here but if you choose to go that way make sure it fits the cylinders and does not restrict the water passages
     
  10. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    This "burned-oil" smoke repeated itself again some days later. I really panicked when I saw that big cloud coming out during maybe one minute. Then, the next day there was no smoke at all.
    Then I remembered that the smoke could have come from brake-line liquid, because of a faulty servo. Checked again the level in the reservoir and found it half empty!
    What a releave! I should have looked better at the smoke: it was white not white-blue.
    I have started to remove the servo to see what has gone wrong. Something in the servo must have been bad already some time, because when I put the foot down on the brake, the servo reacted with a short delay. And when I released the pedal, the brakes would only release about one second later.
    Wilfried
     
  11. lavaux

    lavaux Karting

    Jul 18, 2009
    124
    Cully, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Wilfried Vogel
    I just want to let you know what I did since august 18:
    - removed the brake servo
    - bought a repair kit
    - dismanteled the servo , renewed all seals, cleaned the cylinders.
    - studied the "Girling vacuum servo units" instruction manual. Realized that there was an "early version" (with adjusting screw on the end cover) and a later version without this screw. The screw permitted to adjust the "piston stop" with the servo in place. In the later version (mine) the adjustment is factory made inside with a washer. Found that this washer was missing! This explaned the delayed action of the servo, and the binding after releasing the pedal. Assembled the unit again, now with a washer. Purged the system.
    Result: good braking without delay, no white smoke any more.
    The little oil leak on the rubber gasket was taken care of; I wan't tell you how, because I could not stand your critique!
    Wilfried
     

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