Lead loading, vital or just bragging rights?

Been following your resto with interest Julian, wish mine was progressing at the same pace. In response to your question 'lead vs epoxy filler' I'd go lead every time in the area's that are under stress from movement on the Ghibli. Elsewhere for minor panel imperfections epoxy filler is fine.
Keep up the good work

 

The Bora does this as well especially on the hatch as much of it is solder together and at the base of the front trunk on the corners.

A friend of mine removed all of the lead and welded those spots to prevent any opening up of the seams and flex. But I don't know what his technique for welding was or the long term results either.

 

When I seen this problem in most of the Maserati models I believe it is mostly related to age. The bond of the lead to the metal fails. If you look close to all the leaded areas you can see the same kind of failure even in joints that have been welded and are not under stress. Certainly the stress areas fail first. If you are going to fix the problem then all the old lead needs to come off. Lead works well if properly applied. Keep in mind these cars are 40 + years old. I have had excellent results with bondo replacing the lead, but do not have any bondo rerpairs that are 40 years old. 20-30 years but not 40. If you want to maintain the originality I would stay with lead as long as you can find someone that knows how to apply it.

 

Square cornered openings are problematic no matter the material used. It will eventually crack. I don't think you will achieve satisfaction by trying to fix what is there. It needs to be redone and good leading is a more rare and often more expensive skill.

 

The leaded seams on my Bora failed very early in it's life.

 

Nothing.

 

Julian, the lead that was used, was most of the time, done to fill up imperfections in the metalwork.

With the skillset that your Carrozzeria maker has, I would have tried to address all of them to fix the imperfections by sanding it down to bare metal and melting the lead to address the issues behind.

It would be sad to see the cracks comming back after a few weeks or months of use, it will, I know, I didn't address the stresspoints on my Merak and had to fill them with paint from time to time.

You might also find rust underneath the lead, since they didn't prepare the metalsheets before they welded the car (as shown on the first picture)

The lead is also heavy. so removing it and fixing whatever that it's hiding makes your car lighter as well. (that small bucket with lead remains on the third picture weighs over 25 kgs!)

Kind regards

Kim
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Just a question from a curious nut job like me.

Why is lead superior in terms of cracking? I've worked with lead for 30+ years, it doesn't seem to me to have any inherent flexibility that would help to avoid the problem and its *****y to work with, and dangerous, hot, vaporous, etc.

Bondo, (I'm assuming this is the epoxy based filler) which I have used a couple times in repairs seems to be about the same consistency as lead when it hardens, just lighter weight.

And when you say lead, do you mean 100% lead, or a lead, tin, antimony mix?

This is really just an informational inquiry, my curiosity has always gotten the better of me.

D

 

Not sure what alloy panel beaters use but I know they are fussy about it. I would imagine you were using a pretty hard alloy and the body guys use a very soft one. That being said I know it is said polyester filler should not be applied very thick and many early cars, like the Gullwings for instance used a lot of lead, sometimes rather thick to make all those elaborate shapes and it worked very well for a very long time.

 

Probably so.

WE used a mix to cast lead type. It has a fairly high amount of antimony in it, less so tin.

My guess is the more lead content, the softer it is. Makes sense. And I have seen some pretty ugly bondo repairs that were thick as hell come apart on cars.

So, maybe I need to polish up my lead working skills. Sounds like there's opportunity there.

D

 

Hi Julian,

I have the same cracking on my Merak that you speak of. I feared that possibly there was a metal fatigue tear underneath the paint. When I checked the interior side of the panel, there were no issues. At this point I have not addressed this issue.

What is probably going on is that the lead based filler has either stress cracked and/or seperated from the sheet metal. Best to remove and replace with a safer material. Your options are lead solder body filler or lead free solder body filler.

Lead Free Body Solder Kit - Solder Paste - Soldering Flux ? Eastwood

Then again, you could always refer that question to Carroll in the Group.

Just Sayin!

Ciao,
George

 

You may want to consider a modern products such as All-Metal or Metal-2-Metal instead of lead. Google customer reviews and see if either product would work for you.

U.S. Chemical & Plastics

Evercoat

Ivan

 

If I could figure out the chassis number of my friends Bora it would be interesting to examine how his repairs have held up? He had all of the seams welded and then ground and filed smooth with very little bondo but obvious some was utilized.

I wouldn't begin to know how to find it though. His name was Jim Johnson and his Bora can be seen in this video @ Silver State.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-PFfwxR3SQ

check 7:21 and 38:13.

It had a "sort of" bumper conversion as well as an unusual looking exhaust. The anthracite color was not original but I don't know what it originally had.

The credits etc. are all screwed up. I drove the course the day before in reverse.

 

Never mind all of that I just found him listed elsewhere. It's Bora 992.


Here's a lead:

1977 Maserati Bora...SOLD