Mondial Z | FerrariChat

Mondial Z

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Zertec, Oct 5, 2004.

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  1. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
    Full Name:
    Clive Reed
    #1 Zertec, Oct 5, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. barcheta

    barcheta F1 Rookie

    Nov 15, 2003
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    Jim
    Very interesting...... I like the 355 styling cues....
     
  3. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 28, 2004
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    Michael
    Nice job,

    I was just today thinking about the tail of my Mondial t coupe. I was wondering about the application of a 355 "lip" like the one you have implemented.

    Not bad. Not bad at all.
     
  4. Modificata

    Modificata F1 Rookie

    Apr 27, 2003
    2,654
    Hampton, England
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    Andy Rasool
    What the hell you done to it! It looks like a MR2 kit gone wrong!
     
  5. Coujer

    Coujer Karting

    Jul 19, 2004
    136
    Carmel, CA
    Full Name:
    Laurent C. Richard
    Shocking!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,216
    MO
    I like your side treatment and rear bumper, that said I would have liked it more if you had GTO style vents higher up and if the main upper intake was larger (as on 308s/328s)

    I have to see the end to decide the front though...thus far it is looking really 'lip-y'.
     
  7. Malfark

    Malfark F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2002
    5,307
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    Markem
    Come back Pininfarina....all is forgiven!! MARK
     
  8. ForzaFerrari

    ForzaFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 25, 2003
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    Waldo
  9. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Don the 16th
    I think I like it. That's a Mondial underneath? I've never been a big fan, but that's a Mondial I could love!
     
  10. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    5,688
    Orange County
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    Brian
    looks like to many different F-Cars jumped into this mix. I see 288GTO, 355, 360/Dino, F-50, etc.
     
  11. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
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    Clive Reed
    #11 Zertec, Oct 6, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There are a lot of different cues in the design yet when it is seen in the clay so-to-speak it is coherent with many new details.

    For example the upper air intake leads from the original door handles that create the front end of the scoop thereby keeping and integrating that elegant element (the handles will be de-chromed and body coloured).

    I have re-profiled the front since these images and of course the clam-shell bonnet will have faired-in rather than pop-up lights.

    The GTO/550 vents are in the forward end of the rear bumper to relieve air pressure from the rear wheel arch and visually would not work higher on the body.

    At this stage you need some imagination to see where this is going and of course, an open mind. You should remember that the early cars were, to a large extent, "one-offs" and the bespoke automobile was the thing to have.

    Zagato et all are styling houses that have produced many exercises over the years to illustrate their skills. This is the same. Over several years I have designed and produced many detail developments for TVR and Lotus among others.

    It is not possible to create something new and different that will appeal to all, especially if it involves an emotive subject such as Ferrari. If you do then it will be bland. Even Pininfarina does not always succeed, look at the 612.

    The base car here is a GBP50,000 (US$90,000) 1983 Mondial Qv that has a superb chassis (OK it's a bit underpowered) on which to create a derivative design. The car will be considerably lighter and stiffer when completed and this will help improve the power to weight ratio and handling.

    If you don't like it I don't mind, after all beauty (and art) is in the eye of the beholder.

    Clive
    PS the TVR here is one I did earlier.
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  12. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
    Full Name:
    Clive Reed
  13. pom mondial t

    pom mondial t Karting

    Jun 11, 2004
    68
    bangkok Thailand
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    teeradej t
    surprise to see mondial z ,when it going to be done? I like your design.
     
  14. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
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    Clive Reed
    Most of the work should be done by the end of the year but that can change. I believe that you are in Thailand, if you come to Singapore come and see it.

    Clive
     
  15. pom mondial t

    pom mondial t Karting

    Jun 11, 2004
    68
    bangkok Thailand
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    teeradej t
    Singapore is not far , update your work and I will visit you. december is coming close!!!
     
  16. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
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    John Michael Gross
    I appreciate your efforts...some of it I like and other bits don't work for me but as you say, to each stylist their own! (I always thought the 355 had tremendous styling and would work well over a Mondial chassis - updated of course.)

    One thought -as they like to run warm (and from my days in Singapore...so does the country) I would be very concerned about the flow of air up front as well as the heat in the rear around the exhaust. Perhaps a TVR-ish hood with additional venting around the rear bumper? Just don't want to see those carbon bits melting away...

    - JMG
     
  17. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
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    Russ Turner
    I think it looks great.
    If you run out of ideas, I think a 250 LM nose would look great on a cab forward design like the Mondial - much like the new Alfa 8C Competizione or Type 33 Stradale.

    Looking forward to the finished product!
    best
    rt
     
  18. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
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    Clive Reed
    Cooling was/is a concern here so the theory is to take hot air away as fast as possible. The original layout never had a problem here. My solution on the Z is as follows:

    1) The bonnet vents lead to the cowled fans in a smooth curve thereby minimising turbulence and heat build up.

    2) Although I was restricted where I could lead the vents out due to mechanical parts at the front that I didn't want to move (mainly the brake servo), the bonnet vents exit in a high air flow area that ought to help extract hot air.

    A more difficult issue is slow traffic heat build up. I have made provisions to have thermostacically controlled flush-fitting louvred vents (that drop down rather than pop up) in the area between the fixed hot air outlets. I will only fit these if it proves necessary after testing.

    The rear bumper now has a long vent above the diffuser to help heat dissapation. I am also considering ducts in the flat areas either side of the diffuser on the bottom of the bumper. The GTO/550 side vent also give a further exit for heat. The luggage space base will, in any event, be well insulated!


    The interior will be interesting....
     
  19. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
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    Clive Reed
    #19 Zertec, Oct 31, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have done some detail work on the rear light apertures (they must be symmetrical) and the rear bumper. I am also re-profiling the front clamshell to improve the clean shape. For those interested, one of my favourite tools is a self levelling cross-hair laser, which allowed me to level the car then check alignment and symmetry in the horizontal and vertical planes.

    Clive
    Here is an earlier development car:
    http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/index.asp?storyId=2792
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  20. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,216
    MO
    Are you going to add a Ventura(sp?) Channel setup in the back?
     
  21. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
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    Clive Reed
    Planning:
    The diffuser between the exhausts will have 5 (probably replaceable) fins to help airflow.
    We will replace the undertray, such that it is, with a one that controls the underbody flow and assists the venturi effect as the air heads aft.
    The undertray will have small side "curtains" as well.
    There are restriction with what we can do due to the original design of the car.

    Hella are supplying us with bi-xenon units (the same as those they supply for the F430) and other lights (Hella treat us as OEM).

    The interior will feature the following:
    Lightweight carbon fibre headlining.
    Our design carbon fibre seats (see TVR link earlier). We are going to develop a new reclining seat for this application. We currently have 2 fixed back versions and will evolve these further for other Ferrari applications including a very minimalist track seat.
    Trimming will include the use of memory foam, Alcantara, 3D carbon leather and ordinary leather.
    Cabin accents will include cf (in the dash and as mentioned above) and aluminium.
    Entertainment will include a 120GB MP3 as well as digital radio for those times when the passenger(s) becomes bored with the Tubi soundtrack. For those trips to Sepang F1 circuit, a built in mini-fridge...

    The black 3D carbon leather is superb stuff! We intend to produce a limited run of bags and luggage in this material as it is 20x more abrasion resistant than ordinary leather finishes yet just as supple and more waterproof. Furthermore the finish is amazing even under a magnifying glass. We have used it before on high wear areas of earlier seats to great effect.
     
  22. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
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    The Meister
    Rear end looks nice. Not a fan of the GTO "gills' behind rear tires... too much detail in a small place. Pick either the the top or bottom side scoup, not both (my choice...close up the top one for more of a "bulgy" curvacious look which would emulate the 288 GTO without needing the gills). Front bumber looks good. Not a big fan of the dinosaur nostral (F50?) hood. I actually like the lines of the stock Mondial hood/fender...perhaps a simple hood scoup "ala" the 550/575.
    Obviously you've done a lot of work and you have good ideas. The thing for me about Ferrari's is that they styling in not "over done". It's a clean use of available space and shape. Adding too much "here or there" ruins the whole picture by making it too busy.
    For instance the 308 sereies (GTB/S) has a good use of scoups and grill work in the body, as such a nice simple wheel like a 5 spoke looks great on the car. A BBS with it's mesh center makes the car too busy because it clashes with all the other grilles and scoups... likewise a 360 with it's overall clean lines can be greatly enhanced with a wheel with some mesh or mulitple spokes. The idea is to have an overall balance of styling cues.
    You've got some good ideas, best of luck.
     
  23. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
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    Clive Reed
    Anyone fancy "Photoshop-ing" the images in this thread as I will be too busy working on the real thing? I know what it will look like (in my head) but it would be nice to show other people.
     
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    THE Birdman
    Zertec,
    This is fascinating stuff. Being a big fan of both the 355 and the Mondial, it seems like a very nice combination.

    Knowing nothing about the fabrication process, can you give me a quick run down of how this foam "mock up" becomes a finished product? What is the plan once you finish? Will you create a kit that others can buy?

    Birdman
     
  25. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
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    Clive Reed
    Although there are styling cues from many different Ferraris, the overall design is unique. It is, hopefully, a coherent develoment of the Mondial as a practical mid-engined 2+2. The original intention of this project was to showcase our (sympathetic) design skills. We have designed a completely new modular sports car from the ground up and the Mondial Z project would help to raise awareness and possibly partners for production.

    Simple explanation of the process:
    The foam is used to quickly achieve the rough shape. This is then skinned and prepared to a perfect finish (and I mean PERFECT). Moulds are taken from the panels and production panels/bodyshell turned out from the moulds. The bodyshell and main panels would then be bonded together and to the chassis to create a very stiff combination.

    As you can see it will certainly be possible to make more that one car. I would not however, call this a kit. "Kit" implies an ease of assembly that this will not have. Furthermore it would not be a job for the faint of heart. That said, the performance gains would bring the Mondial Z up to a respectable level without touching the engine.

    The intention for this car is to create a complete body in carbon fibre but it is possible to make a car in almost any combination of composites.

    We conservatively estimate that when complete this car will have lost at least 250kg (leaving a new dry weight of about 1300kg). If this is applied to the dry weight of the Mondial t then the car would be faster than a Testarossa. Now add a Norwood turbo....

    Another advantage of the lower weight is a more agile car that can brake later and change direction faster.

    There is some interest from Ferrari specialists who would be capable of carrying out the job of converting a Mondial into the Z but nothing firm as yet.

    The Mondial has a great chassis and is unfairly criticised for being underpowered/overweight/dated styling. This does, of course, equate to low prices. So never mind if the body is rusty, recycle the car into a Mondial Z.

    Clive
     

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