1987 Mondial Heater Water Pump Switch Question | FerrariChat

1987 Mondial Heater Water Pump Switch Question

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by ceb39, Aug 20, 2013.

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  1. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2012
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    San Francisco Area
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    Chuck B
    My car has been in the shop for a bit to have a few items fixed. The major problem was the A/C did not blow cool when either the A/C and A/E buttons were pushed down. Lots of hot air not cool air. Wife told me should would not ride in the car during the summer without A/C, so into the shop the car went.

    Prior to all of this I just so happened to see a Heater Water Pump Switch (item 38 in Table 129 for a 3.2 Mondial, called an electromagnetic valve, p/n 61079000) on eBay and bought it, just to have it on hand, so if anything ever happened to the valve in my car I would have a replacement.

    When the car went into the shop I had a feeling that the A/C system was working okay, but the heater valve was not closing and overpowering the A/C, thus lots of hot air out of the front vents instead of cool air.

    The shop confirmed that the valve was remaining open and not closing. The shop also confirmed that the valve I provided (the one from eBay) was functioning properly

    When the shop went to replaced the defective valve with the one I provided they found that the two valves were not exactly identical, the Inlet and Outlet to the valve on the defective valve were not like you can see on item 38 in Table 129. Plus the hoses which are on the car now do not mate up with the Inlet and Outlet of the valve. I believe the shop indicated that the hoses were slightly smaller in diameter. The shop said they could come up with a work around solution, but would prefer to have the correct valve.

    I would like to obtain the correct valve for my car, but without the part number of the valve which is currently in the car I am sort of up the creek without a paddle right now.

    The shop has made some calls to try and find the correct valve, but so far no luck.

    My question is, does anyone know of any configuration changes made to these cars which might not show up in Table 129? Does Table 129 only apply to a set of chassis numbers, and mine is not one of them? Or does anyone know what the part number might be of the valve which is in my car?

    My number is 67417, and the date is October 1986.

    Any ideas, or suggestions would be helpfull.

    Thanks

    ceb39
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Steve Magnusson, Aug 20, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
    Not that you'll be able to buy one ;), but:

    Ferrari PN 61079000 = Bosch 1147412013

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    (I recently bought a used one from Eurospares to replace the one in my TR -- and both of those are Bosch 11147412013. Inlet and Outlet are 20 mm diameter.)

    What is the Bosch PN on the valve from your car and the Bosch PN on the valve that you bought?
     
  3. jgoodman

    jgoodman F1 Rookie
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    #3 jgoodman, Aug 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    It is a BMW part. I purchased a rebuild kit that went right into my original valve body. I found the information on a search somewhere here years ago. Might be in the cross reference thread.
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If you do an internet search on "Bosch mono valve repair kit", you will get the rebuild kit that PVD mentioned (and that usually is the trouble, but not always):

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    (I'd avoid the cheapy MTC brand, and buy from either BMW or MB which is about 10X more expensive.)

    IME, when the diaphragm fails, and the chamber with the plunger floods, the symptom is "no heat", not "always heat" -- but if the seating cone fails (or get blocked open by crud), that would give "always heat". The resistance of the solenoid coil should be about 15 Ohms:

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  6. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2012
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    Chuck B
    The valve I purchased on eBay looks exactly like the valve Steve is holding in his hand in the picture above. This valve has Bosch p/n 1147 412013 stamped in the same position as the one shown above. This part looks like the item 38 in the Table shown above. The big question is why does the valve which is in my car not look like the one shown above and in my hand. I did not get to see or copy the part number of the valve in my car.

    Will get back to the shop tomorrow and try to find out what that part number is, and what the configuration is.

    Seeing the disassemble of the valve above I wonder if the guts to the valve in my car is the same internally, but different on the outside. Maybe the guts in the valve I have in my hand can be taken out and put in the valve already in the car. Chances of that being able to be done I think are probably slim, I can not be that lucky.

    Going to talk to the shop tomorrow and find out what the difference is between valve in the car and the valve I have in my hand right now. Will also send the mechanic the pictures Steve provided.

    The mechanic did say that when they tried to actuate the valve in my car he could hear the solenoid move (or maybe try to move) but the plunger or whatever did not close. The valve I provided worked fine.

    Thanks for the pictures Steve, and thanks for the input of others.

    As my old boss would say, "This is just another opportunity to excel and learn something new."


    ceb39
     
  7. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

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    #7 ceb39, Aug 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    With all the information you guys gave me I was able to track this BMW part. It is for a 1987 535i. Will have to contact the mechanic tomorrow but it looks like the one described to me. Also the plunger part of this unit is for sale on eBay and Amazon.

    Hopefully this is the unit needed for my car. If it is I will probably buy a complete unit and buy the repair part on eBay to repair the valve in my car and keep it as a spare.

    Will let you know how it goes.

    ceb39
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  8. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Chuck I don't know the answer to the part number questions. Also, hoses to shrink when getting old.
    But: My car's heater valve is similar to Steve's. When I got my QV, the valve was stuck (open).
    I took it out and apart, cleaned everything and put it back together. It works fine since.
    So, before trying to find a replacement, I would just take it apart and see if it is only stuck with gunk and hardened grease, or actually broken. Chances are that you can fix it :)
     
  9. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

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    Hi Urs:

    Will discuss this with the shop. Maybe they can take it out and I can clean it, or clean it and put the plunger I see on eBay back in. How long ago did you do the service on the part in your car?

    Thanks

    Chuck
     
  10. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Chuck, 4.5 years/50k mls ago.
    Urs
     
  11. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

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    Steve has asked me to post some information which may be helpful to someone else.

    The part (Heater Valve) which is shown in Steve's hand, above, was found on the web site BMW Parts and BMW Accessories | Bavarian Autosport. The part which I believe is in my car was found on the same site, this part was also described as a Heater Valve.

    On the BMW Parts and BMW Accessories | Bavarian Autosport site the valve shown in Steve's hand has a p/n of 64 11 1 468 529. This appears to be the same part I bought on eBay. Part cost on the site is shown as $257, got the part on eBay for $50. This part has an inlet and outlet, and the diameter of these is 0.789".

    The part (Heater Valve) in my car is also found on this site as p/n 64 11 1 468 528, and it is selling for $252. Do not know what the diameter of the inlet and outlets are as I really have not seen the valve.

    I believe these two part numbers are BMW and not Bosch. The valve I bought from eBay does have a Bosch number stamped on it though, and it is 1147 412013. Bosch probably makes these valves for both BMW and Ferrari (when I was searching I found out that the valve is for a 1987 535i), and Ferrari probably incorporated this valve into their cars rather than have one made to their specifications. It probably saved Ferrari money, but we all know what happens when these parts are placed into the little yellow boxes with a FERRARI label on them. I doubt if I could buy this part from Ferrari for $257.

    Urs brought up an idea which may explain the different valves. At some time in the past there might have been a need to replaced the heater valve in my car. Plan A was to use the valve which we see in Table 129, if it could be obtained. If it could not be obtained then the mechanic went to Plan B, use a substitute valve, which is the one in my car. Since the valves are almost identical it only required some additional hose(s) routed differently.

    I think I will go back to the shop tomorrow and discuss this with the mechanic. Hopefully it will only require using the valve I have, and hoses routed to mate up with the inlet and outlet connections.

    Note: Another site BMW Parts and Accessories at GetBMWparts.com has valve 64111468529 list for $217. It also lists a new part number for it, 64111373191.

    Will keep you posted.

    Thanks again for all the help.

    ceb39
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 Steve Magnusson, Aug 22, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
    ceb39 -- Can you please recheck your PNs? On the Bavarian AutoSport site, 64111468529 (superceded to 64111373191) for a 1987 535i comes up as the one with the bottom hose fitting pointing downward (same as the photo in your post #7) -- not "the valve shown in Steve's hand"?

    Also, 64111468528 (which looks identical to the F part, but is Bosch 1147412008 not Bosch 1147412013) is for a 1986 528e.

    Did you accidentally swap the PNs?
     
  13. ceb39

    ceb39 Formula Junior

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    Steve:

    You are correct. I am looking at a print out of the Bavarian Autosport page and the ...529 part does show a hose fitting coming out the bottom. That site also indicates that the ...529 part is the same as p/n 64 1 11 373 191.

    On another print out of the page with p/n 64 1 11 468 528 (the valve with the ninety degree bend) does show it is for a 1986 528e. You indicate that this is Bosch part 1147412008, but the part I have in my hand right now has the other Bosch p/n 1147 412 013 on it. Does that mean there are two similar Bosch heater valves?

    ceb39
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, Bosch 1147412008 (BMW 1986 528e) looks quasi-identical to Bosch 1147412013 (Ferrari), but there must be some slight difference(s) in either:

    1. the mounting holes/ears,

    2. the resistance of the solenoid coil, or

    3. the diameters of the hose ports (like maybe 19mm instead of 20mm).

    I tried asking some eBay Sellers of 1147412008 to measure 2 and 3, but they never got back to me.
     
  15. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    I have another idea but it is pure speculation: The default position (open vs closed) when not powered may be reversed?
     
  16. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    No, because both have identical bodies, and use the same replaceable cartridge, their logic can't be reversed -- must be something more trivial...
     
  17. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    ...such as a more noble packaging box :)
     
  18. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Definitely possible ;)
     
  19. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

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    based on description, the plunger in mono valve with menbrane is NFG
    this is an MB part
    every car from 1981 to 1992 uses them EVERY single one with ACC
    the internal part is a 35 dolar part
    forget al the stuff with PNs it doesn mean anything
    get a monovalvbalve repair kit from world pa and replace guts(10-15 m inute job, if this doesnt fix it, then the push button con trol un it will be gab ab
    nd its a unit replacement(I was an MBH shop foreman...now I work on P cars...)

    I skipped all of the middle posts as this is such a normal and common BOSCH acc problem that all the stuff in the middle is extraneous info in my experience...I showed this to guys at the dlr with 512s and TRs-a common malady after 5 yrs and 20K miles...its just a bosch rubber membrane and Ferraris do run on the hot side...hotter than MBs
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 Steve Magnusson, Aug 23, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
    Have you bought one lately?

    You can buy the cheapy MTC brand "mono" valve replacement part for ~$15 to $40 that gets bad review on the BMW chat sites -- see this thread that indicates only the MTC is available from non-OEM suppliers lately:

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1877016-Mono-valve-repair-kit-from-MTC

    And my own very recent experience with the MTC was bad -- but from MB and BMW sources are $130~$160 from my recent research (and I wonder if those aren't the MTC brand too ;)).
     
  21. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    My new to me Mondial 3.2 coupe has a problem with the same heater valve part. In my case, it was leaking big time. Was getting hot air only with the A/C system, and coolant everywhere.

    The shop I brought it to tried the BMW rebuild kit as a solution. Worked ok at first, but started leaking again. They determined it was due to a crack in the outer plastic, which the rebuild kit doesn't replace.

    New ones go for $600! Yikes!! Yeah, I can go and get it but if the Bosch/BMW part is around half of that, for an identical part, I'd be silly not to go that route.

    So, after reading through this thread, I'm a little unclear as to which part to get. Am I looking for Bosch number 1147412013?
     
  22. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    #22 MvT, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    Thanks. But as that Bosch part seems hard to locate, was it determined that the BMW part would "officially" be compatible? I saw BMW part number 64111468528 (superseded by 64111373188) mentioned in this thread. The photo shows it's really close in shape and detail but not 100%. But it's almost $400 less than the Ferrari part. Will it work in the Mondial?
     
  24. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    I'm not sure, but it looks the same actually.

    Here is one of a BMW. yYu can click on the photo and compare it. Not sure if you can return items of webshop within 14 days in the States.. just to see if it fits.

    BMW Parts and BMW Accessories | Bavarian Autosport

    HTH
    Tijn
     
  25. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    Thanks. Yes, I checked the photo of the part on that site and spent a lot of time comparing the BMW part with the Ferrari part. They are VERY close, but still not quite 100% identical. I'm thinking it's merely cosmetic, as the important stuff appears to be in the right places. But it's a bit of a gamble, regardless.

    Yeah, I'm hoping one of these vendors will have a generous return policy just in case the fitment doesn't work after all. I probably will check with the local BMW shops first and get their input.
     

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