Damn! Kato is going like a rocket!! | FerrariChat

Damn! Kato is going like a rocket!!

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Bell Bloke, Aug 24, 2014.

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  1. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    #1 Bell Bloke, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well Chaps and Chapettes, I don't think that a 30 year old Mondial and only the 3.0ltr one at that, has any right to give a 360 F1 and a Maserati Cambiocorsa a hard time on the road, however it seems that my Kato has other ideas.
    This weekend has seen us out with some visiting friends and their toys and what with the weather being perfect we all decided to go out for a bit of a thrash.
    Now I have to say that last time I raced a couple of 360 Ferraris my clutch expired, BUT not before I realised I'd got the measure of them.
    So yesterday was kind of rematch time and I have to say I did fancy Katos chances, I know Kato did. The only unknown was the Maserati but what with parent company pecking orders I figured the Maser had to be slower a 360.
    Anyway Kato has recently been on a bit of a weight loss diet and this has made quite a difference to his speed out of the blocks.
    So today was Grand Prix day, not just for those blokes in Spa....
    Well to cut a long story short I'm now of the conclusion that Kato is fast as bloody hell!
    After doing several straight shoot outs that are designed to eliminate driver ability, neither the 360 or the Maserati could make any ground on yours truely and Kato.
    In fact Kato was indeed a bit quicker than the Maserati which as I said earlier I felt would be the case.
    Now I know this may seem like a bit of a tall tale and I did think about doing a video to show Kato in action but here the UK is fast becoming a surveillance state, so I thoght better of it.
    Anyway I am thrilled that Kato the old boy can still get up and surprise a few of these young upstarts and I have to say also that now as a result we have finally accepted him fully as one of the family..
    And just in case there is any doubt as to his credentials, Kato is putting it out that he is up for a scrap with any 360 anytime!

    Anyway here are some pics of Kato with one of his buddies.
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  2. 123howie

    123howie F1 World Champ

    Jul 3, 2014
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    Are these cars touching? The reason to park so close is........?
     
  3. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    Nice! btw did you lower Kato? I will not ask where your plates are :) I actually like it without to be honest!
     
  4. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    Err yes the reason they are so close is my friend doesn't know how long his bloody bonnet is, he just missed me by 1inch! Yes Kato has had a few little experimental tweeks here and there and for some strange reason that I just can't understand, the front number plates keep on falling off or get stolen! I believe it to be Aliens...
     
  5. billh1963

    billh1963 Formula Junior
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    You must have made some serious upgrades to Kato to be able to manhandle a 360!
     
  6. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    #6 Bell Bloke, Aug 25, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
    Some weight loss etc.
    I've just been checking on the 360 0-100 and it says 10.5secs
    The Maserati is 10.9 0-100
    Kato 0-100 is 13.9 before a weight loss of 70KG
    On the road for what ever reason it didn't seem to account for much, even my girlfriend commented about them not getting away from us. Also when we were in front on a twin carriageway going hard through the gears she was watching in the mirrors and only the 360 was making a little ground on us, but not enough.
    She thought they might not be trying but I explained that last time we did this I was in the Lotus V8 and that absolutely ate them both, so there was no way they would be charitable to me this time.
    Anyway what ever I'm not really that bothered just pleased to give them both a real shock with the old Mondial, and I like being the underdog who comes through ;-)
     
  7. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
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    Nice! What is Kato doing now on 0-100? 70kg is actually a lot. Put in another passenger and Kato gained weight again.
    Running on half tanks helps as well. Nut sure if you need the back seats still! :cool:
     
  8. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Time to take this comparison seriously and do a lap of a track :)
    Pete
     
  9. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    MvT you are dead right about the weight thing and I was prepared for a bit of a scrap withthe guys so I boxed clever and ran with a minimum of fuel just 1/4 of a tank!
    Also both my girlfriend and I are quite slim, she weighs 126lbs and I am 161lbs
    Our opponants were well lets say BIGGER! and yes they were runningfull tanks of fuel
    BUT hey we're not cheating here, I'm just playing a weaker hand more tactically that's all
    and it's me also try to think like Colin Chapman.
    Loosing weight works, at every level.... but as Colin once said taking out light bits of trim won't make your car lighter, it's getting the heavy stuff lighter that's the trick.
    Lithium Ion car battery.....whoo ha haha!

    Just to add a thought, I think that it's true to say engine power on todays cars has gone up but weight seems to be going through the roof as does physical size.
    650hp should send a car into orbit, but the sheer weight of the FF for example massively blunts the performance and whilst the FF is quick it's not bloody mental like the McLaren F1 which feels way faster.
     
  10. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    PSK thing is I used to race and they hav'nt so it's not really a fair challenge.
    When we convoy I never ever push hard in the curves either if I'm in the front or following, if anything I try stay 'ín touch' but without pressing. This when you are underdog can be hard and you have to read their moves almost before they make them.

    Some straight line drag times will be useful though, I'll see what I can do ;-)
     
  11. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

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    That should teach them!

    Don't mess with the QV!

    I want those retractable 007 plate holders! Or is it stealth paint that does the trick?

    Can you enlighten us on the 'tweaks' you offered Kato? Also interested in weightloss program and lowering methods. :D

    I do prefer the bumpers to be black, but that's the artistic freedom of the owner.

    Are you still depending on those old TRX's when you bully her around, or are those new ones?
     
  12. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Understood
    Pete
     
  13. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    The 'tweeks' are just weight loss, all the aircon stuff has gone now that was a massive weight, special battery, lighter front undertray, massively lighter heatshields, exhaust, even the speakers are gone, no spare wheel. Wheels weigh a ton, so am looking to get carbon wheels made but in the same style so as not to show. (I'm working with a wheel company)
    Kato is on the old TRXs which I love because they have loads and loads of feel on the limit and you can get them nice and hot. Modern tyres would have more ultimate grip sure but I like the retro feel I'm so bored of low profile, everythings got them now and the're all 'bump thumpy' even on a Bently
    But hey I'm not trying to make a racer out of an old Mondial I'm just removing old Iron that does nothing for the car and slows it down. True the carbon wheels are not cheap but then I'm not really paying for them either so I'm lucky there.
    Oh yes springs I had made 20% stiffer 1.5 inches lower.
     
  14. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    Carbon wheels! now I like the sound of that! I thought of that too actually, but like you said it has a price tag! So I am looking for a donut spare wheel. I don't like the fix-a-flat kind of thing, but saves a lot of weight. 4 carbon wheels... I guess you will save at least 75kg.. What about carbon cam covers?

    No speakers, means > No Radio for sure > but no antenna? > no coax cable?

    Btw I think the heating system is also having a lot of weight. it come from the back strait from the engine in seperate lines. I guess plugging it into the front coolant pipes safe another 50kg, but you won't get warm until the thermostat opens :p
     
  15. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

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    If you can lower the unsprung weight; you win on 2 fronts:
    1. Obvious: weight
    2. better handling. Alloy brake calipers, and drilled rotors are a good option. If you can mount carbon wheels in stead of normal alloy, there will be a vast gain...
    Lancia (and also Alfa Romeo later on) used to mount rear brakes against the gearbox on their RWD cars (Flaminia Aurelia...). That saves a lot of weight.

    Bell, it's like you said: it's no art to drive fast, it's an art to drive consistent fast and to anticipate on things.

    MVT: for the spare wheel: I'm also looking for a replacement for the spare TRX. I'm thinking: Volvo or Ford. They have also 5x108.
    This one could be a nice replacement:
    ? Origineel, ongebruikt 18 inch reservewiel voor oa XC90 - Volvo-onderdelen - Marktplaats.nl
     
  16. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    Well to be honest I don't want to do anything to the car that's not easily reversible. The aircon on my car is now illegal so it can never be used again.
    The speakers are unecessary when you are in a Ferrari, if I want to listen to music I either put my foot down or stay at howe and listen to my electrostats.
    Heat shields are a ridiculous weight so that was easily fixed.
    Any spare wheel is unecessary these days and inflate gas has always worked for me, modern cars rarely carry a spare. Also leadacid car batts are about to be outdated too an average one weighs 70LBS.
    So looking at my car you wouldn't really say it had been lightened because it's not stripped out at all, it's all hidden and with carbon wheels I'm going to save loads and unsprung weight is reduced. How will this effect damping? Well we'll see but it's moving strongly in the right direction and that has to be good.
    ;-)
     
  17. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    #17 MvT, Aug 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Visiting someone who has one :) They are bloody flight deck ships, just look at the size of this thing.

    Bentley continental flying spur 6Ltr V12, fastest Bentley they make.

    0-60 in 4.2 sec. keep in mind that this ship weights over 2.5ton.. ..Errr no match for lady grey :) I would need to buy the other 4 seater to match up with this. The Ferrari 612 Scaglietti.
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  18. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

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    Hey MvT tell me about the whole huge, bloody huge car thing! I remember not so long ago when a Ferrari 308 or Mondial was a big car. now it looks tiny next to even a Fiat.
    I don't know why car makers have lost the plot, I mean under no circumstances is a bigger heavier car ever better than a light one. And yet even Ferrari are building big red London buses these days. Like I said earlier in this thread 700BHP in the 80s and 90s would have sent a car into orbit but now it just makes them mearly fast.
    Take the McLaren F1 (yes please) with 650BHP it feels like it's tearing your face off in 2nd gear, but not so with a 650BHP Ferrari and the Bugatti needs over a 1000BHP to match the McLaren! Gordon Murray you see he's a car design genious who hasn't lost his way.
    And as for the Bentleys well they always have been fast trucks so I'll let them off, lightness has never been their philosophy, but Ferrari really should be doing what Lotus are doing and have been doing for years. They've got all the materials so why don't they use them?....
    Oh well rant over Ha ha ;-)
     
  19. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

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    #19 soucorp, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    +1 well said Bell, although some of the weight put on has been dictated by federal laws for safety through the years (air bags, tire monitors...) and they keep adding more every yr. The other stuff comes from feature comforts of what consumers are use to and want like AC, CD radios w/changer and 9 speakers, spare tire, etc...

    Just for kicks, Mondial size compared to a 308, 360, 3.2 & T

    C H E E R S
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  20. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    #20 MvT, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    True that! :) Actually the Mondial could have been send into orbit already. Looking at my Mondial Ferrari already put in a lot of extra options compared to regular cars (even vs the 328) at the time. Do we really need a 1 kilo solenoid to open the front bonnet? Just to name a thing and there are 4 hidden in our horses. At the time luxury was still special and only for a specific audience. I guess nowadays it is common. If we were to take all that luxury stuff away I think the mondial could lift off. I'd really like to know what a Mondial would weight in that kind of a condition and I bet we would reach 0-60 in 5 sec. Carbon didn't

    +1 on Mike's comment. A fourth weight factor has lately shown up called entertainment. USB, Ipod, LCD stuff and I guess all of this need to be accommodated.
    Nice compare Pics :D

    Owners of common cars want more and so they get it else we simply do not want it. On top of that Ferrari like to add more? Convenience and Entertainment lure you into buying such cars and so brands make it available and the circle is round. To be honest... I am half that person when buying a modern car. I want heated mirrors, parking sensors and adaptive cruise control, else I don't want it. And it is all for my own convenience :) Do I need it on my Mondial. Heck no! ah parking sensors perhaps on the back. Amsterdam is really a pain when parking!

    The McLaren F1. Very nice F1 machine with a shell ;) Not many people have one and they usually know how to handle it. No offence, a Ferrari would be a more common vehicle compared to this exotic and often, no offence again, driven by more people for home work then this exotic. The only objective of a McLaren F1, don't get me wrong again, is to try to kill you. It is challenging you to the very edge over and over again. Only comparible one is the La Ferrari, even this one has been tempered but but car is said to be capable of considerably more. I guess Ferrari knows that a lot of people (often new F owners) cannot handle the real character of a Ferrari and build in a control switch and temper it. Last time I saw someone turning of that switch it ended up badly. Turning off this button they too still turn into killers.

    Near my home. A test drive. They stepped out relatively unharmed because of the safety features. but they touched the button.
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOvM2ou51w0]Ferrari aan puin tijdens proefritje - YouTube[/ame]

    I think the closest to the Lotus ever for Ferrari is the never released Ferrari 4RM 408 (A true 4x4) if they would have released it and developed that one further.. it would have been a nice compete if all the options were left out. However also that one has a lot of things you would not need.

    I think what I am trying to say is that it all comes down on serving the majority even for Ferrari and to keep it safe.
    Btw Ferrari has a package with the Stradale to have no luxury. So they do learn.

    sigh.. Where is the time I drove my 850kilo, yourself as crumple zone, Alfa 33 QV with relatively no safety. :) But I did have electric windows, which were worse then the Mondial! haha
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  21. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    #21 MvT, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ps. a McLaren F1 would scare me and I think I could not handle it right the first few times. :)

    So the La F weight 200kilos less and still is 1 sec slower the Mc F1.. I won't even look at the German stuff cause that's insane.
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  22. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

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    #22 Bell Bloke, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Modern living means we are getting bigger and so are our cars.
    Some numbers to digest..

    Yesterdays Supermodels:
    McLaren F1 Year 1992 Weight 1,000 KG
    Lotus V8 Year 1998 Weight 1,250 KG
    Lotus Elise Year 1996 Weight 720 KG
    Lotus Elan 1968! Weight 688KG
    Fiat X19 Year 1972 Weight 880KG

    BIG BOOTY:
    Ferrari FF Year Present Weight 1,900KG
    Ferrari California Year Present 1,750KG
    Bugatti Veyron 1,888KG
    Lamborghini Aventador 1,750KG

    I know which figures I prefer.... ;-)

    Here's some more size comparisons Soucorp, note that the diminutive McLaren that actually seats 3 people.
    And MvT I've only ever driven the F1 in the dry but even though it has stacks of power it is very safe handling and not at all scary.
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  23. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    haha, I now realise how big the 500 actually is, and even this one people find too small these days. Now don't put the 500L next to it. :)
     
  24. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

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    Interesting! however this is 18inch. The good thing is that Volvo wheel fit on all their models and I believe they are also 5x108. Still having my V50 around the corner. Let see if it fits.
     
  25. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

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    With the given tire measurements, it'll fit on my Mondi so I assume also on yours.

    You can compare tire circumference and that's the thing you need.
    Omrekentabel bandenmaat

    + I prefer a new light space saver for a heavy 32yr old TRX. The latter isn't the one I would depend on...
     

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