Looked at 2 Mondial, opinion needed | FerrariChat

Looked at 2 Mondial, opinion needed

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by abignami, Sep 15, 2014.

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  1. abignami

    abignami Karting

    May 20, 2010
    76
    Milano, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alessandro Bignami
    Hello everybody, I'm not new to this great site but I'm still a wanna be owner... life sometimes gets complicated and the wish list priorities have to be changed.
    Anyway, I'm always looking for a nice car that can be good for me and this week I had a chance to see 2 cars... almost too much and I would like to have on opinion from you.

    Ok, let's start.
    1) First car is a red QV (1983) black interior, 3 owners. Body is perfect. The car has: service manual, all manuals, all tools, new tires, new shock absorber, new brakes, major maintenace done last year (1000 kms ago), fuel lines done (but not documented) AC running well, instruments working (fuel gauge working but not well... as usual), exhaust it's almost new. Interior is good but electrical windows are almost not working. It has the fuse box with modern fuse but the white connector on the right has a burn near the cables that wire the fuel pump.
    BUT: when the owner started it it made a big BANG, the owner explanation was "I brought her on the other side of the street for washing and refuel her and the shutted down, so maybe a little fuel as chocked her". AND, when running at idle from the plenum (or around there) it comes a noise like a gurgling, sucking... it's difficult to explain but it's REALLY noisy (you can hear it standing in front of the car). When you accelerate it seems to disappear or it's covered by the sound of the engine. When I asked about it the owner said "It has always done it and my mechanic says that's ok and I trust him".... instead I didn't like it, nor the answer, nor the noise. I NEVER heard that noise on any of the car that I looked at (at least 6).
    Other than this there is the issue that the mechanic of the owner before the present one, used TONS of red paste to seal the cam covers, all around the covers, around the distibutor and around the side of the belts and it smeared all the covers with it... it seem a very poorly done job and I didn't like it.
    The engine bay has a "poor look" in general.
    Then we went to do a little test drive and the cars runs smoothly, it goes up to 7000 rpms, it brakes and steers properly BUT I smeel fuel... I asked an explanation and he told me:"It does it just when you refuel". To be honest, I'm perplexed.

    Ah, I forgot: the plenum is black (and not red) and on a 83 car it's strange.

    Asked price is 21.000 euros

    Ok, car number 2.
    2) It's a 3.2 1989 (1988) with ABS and 8 owners (a couple were dealers).
    The car has NO service manual, NO user manual, NO tools (just the jack), tires are to be changed, the paint is chipped in many places (courtesy of other drivers that are no able to open their door without slamming in the car near theirs), there is a little bubble on the paint on the border of the trunk lid, no rust on the lower part of the car. One wheel rim has the paint chipped. And to complete the description, the right side headlight does a funny thing: it opens all the way, then it goes down a few degree (as if it's tired :) ) and when it closes, it goes down as expected but then it comes up a few degree. I don't know what to think: motor to be changed or registration to be done?
    Incredibly there is a scracth (a light one) on the windshield... how in the hell can you scratch a windshield?

    The only history known it's about a belt change 4.000 kms and one year ago but the invoice perplexed me because the belts were all changed but there is no word about the bearings. Who could change the belts and not change the bearings?
    Another thing done is the refitting of the injection system and the injectors have been changed with new ones made in brass.


    Ok, let's come to other good things: electric is all working, instruments (yes the fuel gauge too), windows (incredible), aerial, glove box, all the lids (trunk, engine and front trunk). I couldn't test the sunroof because the owner doesn't feel like open it because he never used it and he is afraid that it can start leaking (!). The clutch master cylinder has been changed by the last owner.

    Then I started the engine: it started smooth and clean (after at least a night in the open), it stabilized on 1200 rpm and purred like a cat. The exhaust system has been remade recently and has a sound that it's HEAVEN.

    The gear works fine, brakes are goods, the engine is able to run at 1800 rpm in 5th gear and go up without esitations or hiccups.
    The steering has no play (on either side) but it's quite "light" in the center (from center to 1/4 turn (left and right)) and the becomes heavier. Is this right? Even if I had looked at 6 car at least I was able to drive just one and it was, let be kind, not good, expecially the steering, so I don't have a comparison term.

    After the engine warmed up, I pushed it a little more, and it is very very good: it goes up without problems in each gear (I couldn't push too much in the 3th and upper gears because we were inside the city)... but 120 km/h were easily reached.

    When we came back there were no smells (fuel, brakes... nothing), the engine ran smooth, fans ran, temps and pressures were good.

    The interior is good, it just needs a clean up and tons of cream for the leather.
    All the windows are original, and all seals seem good (even that of the back window that it's exposed to a lot of heat).
    I didn't see any leak (oil, water...).

    The asked price is around 20.000 euros but I think that it could be lowered.

    So, the question is: in your opinion which is the best one? I think the second one (even with some work to be done on it) and, obviously, a mandatory PPI because the first one it seems to hide some mechanical issue.

    BTW, a friend of mine just called telling me that a friend of her has a 308 sitting in the garage (inherited) and it want to sell because she doesn't know what to do with it and asked if I would like to look at it.
    Obviously the answer was YES... it would be a joke looking for a Mondial and finish up with a 308.
    I asked myself why people who doesn't like and understand cars have a knack for inheriting them... who knows?

    Anyway, I would wait for your opinion about all of this.... it seems that I cannot find a decent car in every aspect but just cars that are perfect in some areas and terrible in others.

    Thank you in advance for you time.
    Alessandro
     
  2. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,814
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #2 soucorp, Sep 15, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
    Hello Alessandro,

    I would start off by saying if I were your financial advisor, I will tell you to try and get the 308, much more valuable & desirable as a collector car. In general for all Ferrari, when you add +2 more seats' the price goes down.

    Having said that and assuming you are still reading this, buy the right car for your needs and wants. Given a choice between a QV and 88 3.2, I will choose the 88 with ABS. It's a solid car, besides a bad ignition coil module, my 88 has run perfectly since I got her 3 years ago. I chose a Mondial cabrio because it fits my family with my 2 kids in the back and besides I loved the top down lines on this car! No way was it for financial reasons, I was a Porsche guy and always wanted a Ferrari and now I wouldn't give her up for anything.

    Since you are looking at a coupe, no need to worry about the rear cabrio windows that will stop working. Good to have choices and I trust that you will make the best one for you!

    Good luck and keep us posted.
     
  3. abignami

    abignami Karting

    May 20, 2010
    76
    Milano, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alessandro Bignami
    Thank you, I'm doing the same reasoning with my wife... it will depend on the asked price for the 308 and its conditions.

    About the Mondial 3.2 I forgot to tell that the spark plugs cables are brand new.

    I will keep you posted for sure ;)
    Alessandro
     
  4. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    The first car sounds like trouble and bad repairs done. it should not have gasket sealant coming out of all the gaps. Excess sealant can get into the engine and cause problems. And with a strange noise I'd want to not find out later what it is.
     
  5. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    #5 MvT, Sep 15, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
    Ciao Alessandro,

    Assuming you are a handy guy (from your post) :) both are nice I guess, but depending on the price..!

    Don't trust him. From the sound of it it's probably a vacuum leak, vacuum leaks have the most noticeable effect at idle. I would not have so much faith in the maintenance of this car looking at the response so I would not give more then 10.000 euro and do an engine rebuild if you are prepared not to drive the first couple of weeks.

    Get the 3.2 for 18.000 and you will have a nice car. But keep in mind te reserve between 3000 and 5000 euro for neglected maintenance.

    Do a major including the belts. Belt bearings can be re-greased and do not neccesarily need to be changed.

    again if you are handy a 308 is also nice! but garage queens are a drag.. you can drive it one day without problems and the next morning you will find a pool of oil in your garage and the huge maintenance job begins.

    If you totally are not handy. leave the QV and 308 because they will run into piles of bills.

    HTH
    Tijn
     
  6. abignami

    abignami Karting

    May 20, 2010
    76
    Milano, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alessandro Bignami
    Ok, little update on the topic.
    I discarded the Mondial QV because, even if she has a lot of good things already done, I really didn't like the noise from the intake and the red paste smeared around (and all over) the valves covers.
    I spoke with the person that helps me to evaluate the car that I look at and he gave some advices and a little list of checks to do to the other one (the 3.2).
    Now I'll go to see the car again and I'll probably do an offer. Fingers crossed.
    Alessandro

    PS: I looked at the 308 GTB carb. Very nice car but the owner was a very rude man. He seemed annoyed that I wanted to look at the engine, in the front hood and he was constantly saying "The car is perfect, I tell you" and "Don't touch this, don't touch that". I didn't have the courage to tell him "Ok, let's go for a ride". Instead I told him: "Ok, nice car. I'll let you know if I'm interested" and left him there without any more word.
    There is some strange people around.
     
  7. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,814
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #7 soucorp, Sep 24, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
    How dare you ask to see the engine??? LoL wt'f is wrong with the seller? I would understand if the car has parked for 20 years and he said no you can not start the engine, but don't look under the hood and don't sit in the car is ridiculous from any buyer IMO.
    Yes, there are some real a$$es out there. Good luck on your Mondial search!

    -Mike
     
  8. DDD

    DDD Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2011
    371
    Full Name:
    Domenic
    Get the 308 no question then Mondial 3.2 3.2 is best engine on Mondial
     
  9. abignami

    abignami Karting

    May 20, 2010
    76
    Milano, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alessandro Bignami
    I'm speechless. The guy that own the 3.2 told me (2 weeks ago) that he would be abroad for 2 week and returning on October the 4th (the day before yesterday) and that I should contact him after October 4th.
    Yesterday I had a full day and this morning I come to the office thinking about calling him first thing. I opened my email and I found an email from him telling me that he sold the car yesterday..... I CANNOT believe this. But what kind of people is there out there? He had my email AND my mobile phone number, I told him that I was interested in the car and he closed the deal with another guy WITHOUT giving me a call..... damn.
    Well, sorry for the outburts.

    Ok, I'll start to look around again for another car.

    Alessandro
     
  10. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,814
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #10 soucorp, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
    Sorry to hear about that Alessandro. The only thing I can think of is that he got a better offer of more than 20.000 euros from someone else and since you did not leave a deposit, he was not obligated to give you first refusal. These cars are only going up in value the longer you wait. I've bought over 30 cars thru the years and know when to move quickly on a deal, especially when I know that I am getting a good deal and foregoing the opportunity cost would be worth it for me.

    Best Hunting
     
  11. abignami

    abignami Karting

    May 20, 2010
    76
    Milano, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alessandro Bignami
    Thank you for your answer. I tell you that he accepted 16.5 k€ (at least this is what he told me). That was more or less what I would want to offer... but I didn't get the chance.

    People is strange.
    Regards.
    Alessando
     
  12. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,814
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #12 soucorp, Oct 6, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
    I agree that this guy is strange, especially when he knew you were waiting for him to get back! odd odd odd
    That's just wrong of him not to at least give you a call.
    I think most people are not that strange and would seek the best price they can get in a multiple buyer situation. He didn't keep it in the family and sold it to his nephew did he?

    Best
     
  13. abignami

    abignami Karting

    May 20, 2010
    76
    Milano, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alessandro Bignami
    You get the point and I don't think that he sold to his nephew :D
    Ale
     
  14. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,814
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    That's 2 for 2 strange sellers for you? Hopefully it's not normal behavior in Italy to be rude sellers, the Italians I know in the states go out of their way to help.

    Keep us posted on your Ferrari hunt.
     

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