So my search for a Mondial is kinda of heating up. I owned a 308 for 15 years and now a 348 so I've cut my teeth a bit... I never really considered my 308 "unreilable." I lost 2 fuel pumps and had a cracked plug wire extension, but never really feared using the car. On my radar are some Mondials from 84-88 and just wondered from those of you more familiar with them am I looking at any major improvements between those years. Obviously newer years will have some upgrades here and there, but in general is there anything big enough to make a difference? thanks!
Well, since you had a 308 for 15 years, you know the difference between the carbed, injected, QV and 328 models. A 1984 Mondial would be the 3.0QV. In 1985, the 3.0QV ended and the 3.2 came in. Lots of things are still the same between the two models, but there's definitely a big difference. Both mechanically and cosmetically, the model shift made a difference. You mention reliability; both are considered fairly reliable, though I belive in general, the 3.2 has a better reputation for reliability. Similar to the difference between a 308QV and a 328.
For starters, and although it's a bit time consuming, try looking through the parts manual for each of them. For example, the window mechanism for the QV consists of wires and pulleys whereas the 3.2 has the more modern lifting design ("slow" windows are rarely a problem). Ferrari Mondial QV Parts : Table 110 - DOORS - QUATTROVALVOLE Ferrari Mondial 3.2 Parts : Table 114 - DOORS - CABRIOLET
The biggest difference are the bumpers. Also the instrument pod. I personally would buy a 3.2 anytime again. The rear window on the cab most of the time very slow.
I think both the 3.0 and 3.2 are similar in terms of reliability. Difference in individual cars account for much more than anything intrinsic to the design. I prefer the relative simplicity of the 3.0, but that bias arises from having bought one instead of the other. There are lots of little things that changed between the 3.0 and 3.2. I don't have a 3.2, but I've encountered parts differences as I've looked for parts for my 3.0. * Don't hold me to this, but off the top of my head: alternator is definitely different, seems to have evolved throughout the entire production period I _think_ the shift shaft seals are different, but this change might have occurred early in 3.0 production ... not sure, foggy on this. 3.2 cars have ABS. I believe both the front and rear wheel bearings are different as well. I think the calipers, hoses and pads are the same. I have collected a load of data on rotors that is not handy now, I seem to recall broad interchange. the means of attaching the fuel injectors is different (solid block of rubber in there on early QV vs. block and o-ring) fuel pump -- early ones have internal non-removable check valve, vs external valve on newer cars and corresponding fittings are different. Parts are easily available to do either way, or just about anything, for that matter. Of course, the FI changed in other ways, with the 3.2 gaining the O2 sensor for lambda and the "frequency valve", and all of the support circuitry that entails. Microplex ign. on 3.2. Coil packs look different, not sure of actual electrical differences, but I believe they are all interchangeable with minimal effort. I think the distributor rotor changed, though I'm not sure. Timing belt drive seal definitely changed. Obviously some engine internals due to different displacement. So I would certainly expect pistons, rings, liners, rods to be different. I think all of the small parts in the heads are the same, I've never encountered any difference when obtaining small valvetrain parts for my car. Again, this is all off the top of my head, stream-of-consciousness stuff, I may well be wrong on some of this.
What I seem to hear is a weak link is electronics. IMO, both the 3.0 and 3.2 are very dependable engines if kept up on. On my ex 308 I installed an upgraded cooling fan that was adjustable, powered directly off the battery and had it's own probe in the upper rad hose to read the temp..thus bypassing all the related relays and thermo switches of the OEM configuration and I had a similar set up for the fuel pump. I had a version of the birdman fuse box and some other things that I think led to the increased reliability which are obviously doable on the mondial. One thing I did not do to the 308 but certainly would look into if I had another 3.0/3.2 engine would be distributorless ignition. Slow windows and non reading speedo's/tachs or other little things don't bother me much it's just the big electronic items which actually make a car run are where I'd like to have reliability
True, electrical is the weak area, but this is all repairable as you point out. BTW, there's no equivalent to Birdman's fuseblock as the only fuses on the Mondial are under the front bonnet in the big fuse/relay block. But the general ideas for improvement are the same. A second cooling fan in the Mondial is trivial to do, the wiring should already be there. I like your approach on your 308, redundancy really improves reliability. Agreed on the philosophy of a car that runs ... minor things don't bother me. Honestly, I think you'd be happy with either. The 3.2 probably has an edge in having fewer obscure / hard-to-find O.E. parts.
The 86 3.2's don't have ABS If that makes a difference to you I'm not sure exactly when ABS started on the Mondials I don't know if it was the same as the 328.
According to Keith Bluemel's Original Ferrari V8: "ABS braking became available as an option on the 3.2 Mondial during 1987 and was standardised in 1988, this feature carrying through to the t models."
I was just looking online to find out when ABS did come out on the Mondial and came up with the same info as Wade.
True statement, not all 87 3.2 have ABS but all 88 models do, that's why my 3.2 is an 88! IMO, 88 is the best 3.2 to own if you are in the market, reliable, no engine out service needed, easy to maintain as a DIY car and now meets the classic car requirements for plates so no more inspections, at least in most states. Cheers Image Unavailable, Please Login
And also the last in some things. Which is very, very cool! Mike, that's one of the most fantastic pictures of a Mondial I've seen in a long time! Kind regards, Nuno.
Thanks all so far. So the '88 (considering 1985-88) is the only year in which you can change belts and access the water pump area with the engine in the car? I know that in the Mondial design it was the first to allow for the engine and sub frame to drop out the bottom, but I had assumed all the Mondial 3.0/3.2 egines could have belts changed in the same manner as 308/328 with engine in...no??? Obvioulsy the "T" needs to drop out the same as my 348 which I plan to do next winter after picking up a two post lift recently.
That's a narrow assumption indeed! For service and minor maintenance, all Mondials (except the t) are pretty much the same. Including all belts and the water pump. Also, the Cab is easier than the Coupe in some areas e.g. there's an engine bay access panel behind the rear seats (which the Coupe does not have).
That access panel could be "introduced" for the coupes too...no?? Sawzall maybe!? Coupes other than the sunroof seem to have less to go wrong. Interiors will hold up better too. Though many times the cab would be nice.
I've looked into it, there's not a lot of wiggle room, and almost nothing to be gained. Mike S. and I were comparing this on our cars, and he pointed out that a lot of the things that require the access panel on the cab are relatively easy to get at on the coupe. I agree. It seems all of the panelwork needed to stash the cab top really intrudes on the engine bay, as opposed to the coupe. Seeing a bunch of cab owners running around in a panic as the rain set in was an eye opener for me!
Charles, A cab owner has to have two things: a good sense of planning before a trip and a powerful weather app on his smartphone! Kind regards, Nuno.
