No spark from distributor with good coil. | FerrariChat

No spark from distributor with good coil.

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by jmcscotty, May 25, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. jmcscotty

    jmcscotty Rookie

    Jan 27, 2015
    12
    I have a dead "bank"(cylinders 1,2,3,4) on '86 Mondial 3.2 l, based on previous POST ("Little gas out of two tailpipes." where readers made suggestions). Having narrowed the source of the problem I want to start a new POST for clarity. Both the coils are good (I switched them). All plugs are good (I switched 4 and 5). I use an in-line plug tester which flashes when it gets a signal. Today I removed distributor cap on bad side and saw what appeared to be metal "filings" on inside of cover. I plan to clean and replace the cap and test spark on 1,2,3,4. Does anyone have suggestions? Can a cap just wear out? Does the fact that all cylinders 1,2,3,4 are out suggest anything. Why would they all "wear out " at the same time. Or could it be the rotor? If this approach does not work does it make any sense to find a replacement cap and rotor/.
     
  2. Nathan76

    Nathan76 Formula Junior

    Jun 20, 2013
    344
    Leicestershire, UK
    Superformance stocks spare rotor arms and distributor caps.
    Why not clean and then try swapping rotors and then caps to see if the problem follows the rotor or the cap.
     
  3. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2010
    1,176
    Rotterdam
    Full Name:
    Johan
    Did you check for a spark directly out of the 1,2,3,4 coil before the distributor? You can do this to determine if the distributor is the real problem.
     
  4. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,814
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    1) check to see if you are getting spark to the distributor, is spark strong or weak?
    2) if so, check to see if you are getting spark from distributor to plugs 1-4 (is spark strong or weak?)
    3) if not, its somewhere from coils/ignition module to distributor/rotor/cap to wires/plugs
    4) try swapping everything from other bank 5-8 to see if the problem has switched to the other side.

    happy hunting
     
  5. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    5,195
    18 mi from the surf,, close to Pismo, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    Every thing swaps,, even the Digiplex units can swap...
    I eventually, I found a Wrong sized rotor in my 1981 Mondi, by the Swapping method.
    Good luck.
    Edwardo
     
  6. jmcscotty

    jmcscotty Rookie

    Jan 27, 2015
    12
    Update. Originally cylinders 1,2,3,4 gave no spark with plug tester which flashed when in line. Cylinders 5,6,7,8 all sparked. Switching coils, cylinders 5,6,7,8 again sparked, cylinder 4 did not (did not check1,2,3). Coils remain switched. Distributor 5,6,7,8 more difficult to get to so postponed switching caps/rotors for the moment. Cleaned out 1,2,3,4 distributor cap of what may be gritty carbon specs and lightly rubbed contacts with nail file. Checked contacts between the four HT terminals inside the 1.2.3.4 cap and end of HT wires at spark plug. Cylinders 1,4 HT leads showed no resistance using ohmmeter at 20K. No electrical conduction for 2,3. Removed 2,3 HT leads from engine. Again no conduction from one end to the other. By repeatedly poking ohmmeter sharp sensor through HT insulation to touch the wire I determined there is a break in conductivity of HT leads near spark plug end of #2 lead and the same with #3. WIll check availability of new leads. I have no idea how a "break" can occur in these lines. There is no sign of damage. I guess I could try starting engine without HT leads 2,3 which were no good anyway to see if 1,4 are now working with cleaner distributor. If not working I could move on to switching distributor caps/rotors or maybe buy if not an arm and a leg.
     
  7. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 1, 2002
    5,195
    18 mi from the surf,, close to Pismo, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwardo
    1986 rotors Cheap,, like $20.00 each.
    Caps, not cheap.

    Good luck.
    Edwardo
     
  8. jmcscotty

    jmcscotty Rookie

    Jan 27, 2015
    12
    Update. 1986 Modial 3.2 L Cabriolet. No sparks in cylinders 1,2,3,4. I replaced broken HT wires to cylinders 2 and 3 using new wire from O'Reilly's. Bank 1,2,3,4 still won't fire. Both coil bodies are good since I switched them. Each coil has 5 electric leads entering top of coil through a plug. i pulled off plug to bad bank 1,2,3,4 and put into good bank coil 5,6,7,8 which it can reach. Car would not start so there is a problem with electric feed to top of coil 1,2,3,4. Then in a separate experiment, I rerouted HT wire from bottom of coil 1,2,3,4 into coil 5,6,7,8 and car would not start. Signal is good out of bottom of coil 5,6,7,8 because these cylinders fire but this good signal will not fire 1,2,3,4. Distributor 1,2,3,4 has been cleaned.I concluded I cannot reach distributor 5,6,7,8 because of location to get to bolts, remove it and switch with distributor 1,2,3,4 unless someone knows how to increase access to the 5,6,7,8 distributor.

    If I could fix electric problem at top of coil 1,2,3,4 I could check spark out of bottom of coil 1,2,3,4 as someone suggested, If a spark exists then distributor 1,2,3,4 must be bad. I could just replace it. I have never got a spark in cylinders 1,2,3,4 HT lines using my in-line meter throughout this problem. Does anyone know where I might purchase a distributor. Does anyone know why the 5 wire electric input into top of coil 1,2,3,4 would not drive coil 5,6,7,8? Are not these two 5-wire inputs the same, with similar constant voltages.? Should not they be reversible? Why would the car "know" the difference?
     
  9. 308mon

    308mon Karting

    Oct 5, 2014
    169
    UK
    My suggestion would be to check the readings on the Microplex ignition module if you can and are confident to do such checks (please refer to the WSM for further information on the connector pin layout). Pins 14 and 15 are for the right bank (1-2-3-4) and Pins 9 and 10 for the left bank (5-6-7-8). Right and left as viewed from the flywheel end of engine. DVM reading should be around 3v at normal engine idle.
     
  10. jmcscotty

    jmcscotty Rookie

    Jan 27, 2015
    12
    I have in-line plug tester. Is it OK to connect plug tester to bottom of coil and hold other end of tester close to or against ground? This is to test whether I am getting a signal out of coil on dead bank side of car which has no sparks on cylinders 1,2,3,4. JMcScotty
     
  11. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2010
    1,176
    Rotterdam
    Full Name:
    Johan
    I think it's better to use a spark plug at the other end of the tester. Then you now the voltage out of the coil is high enough to generate a spark on a spark plug (which it should).
     
  12. jmcscotty

    jmcscotty Rookie

    Jan 27, 2015
    12
    Jeka. Thanks for advice. I attached HT lead to bottom of coil (cylinders 1,2,3,4) and added an in-line spark plug tester and then a new spark plug which I laid against the engine block. I started the engine. Cylinders 5,6,7,8 started as usual and the plug tester and the plug both sparked. THerefore I am assuming the reason cylinders 1,2,3,4 do not spark is the distributor on that side. I will buy a replacement distributor cap and rotor for this '86 3.2 L Mondial Cabriolet. Cleaning the existing one did not work. Does anyone know where I can find these?. JMcScotty
     
  13. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,662
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    It would be nice if we know where you live. Then suggestions would make more sense.
     
  14. jmcscotty

    jmcscotty Rookie

    Jan 27, 2015
    12
    I checked electrical connection between rotor contact and engine body on the dead side and found conductance. On removing the rotor I discovered a carbonized hole in the back which had been conducting electricity to the metal shaft on which the rotor is mounted. I live in SF Bay Area and in Carson City NV but will look for this Magneti Marelli part on line for my '86 Mondial 3.2 L Cabriolet.
     
  15. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    Happy that you found the issue! If my ECU ever gives up on me I will take a XDI direct coil ignition so that the rotors become obsolete :) IMHO a little modernization on old technology makes it even a more reliable driver. Happy driving when things are fixed!
     

Share This Page