Dead Starter (HOT) No More Push Starts.....Sorry Emily | FerrariChat

Dead Starter (HOT) No More Push Starts.....Sorry Emily

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Bell Bloke, May 25, 2015.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #1 Bell Bloke, May 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes that's right Folks, it's only taken me 2 years to get around to doing this job. I think it was because it was very intermittant in the beginning and was hard to trace, Then Emily rather enjoyed push starting Kato, and finally once my diagnostic wire was attached directly to the starter it became possible to start Kato remotely with a small battery.
    Anyway as you may or may not know Kato has a flat floor pan to keep his engine lovely and clean, also to protect the electronics in the engine bay area and finally to keep out the water and all the bed weather we get here from other vital areas.
    As a result, getting to the starter means removing the floorpan, so it has been a job that I have put off until now. Also I wanted to come up with an elegant simple solution to this common problem myself with something of my making. I also wanted to install it in a weatherproof and easily accessible way just incase there was any issue with it in the future.
    Anyway I'm delighted to say that it works perfectly, it cost 10 bucks and no wiring had to be cut or altered in anyway, only redirected.
    The final solution was a little 30 amp relay and some wire.......it's changed our lives I can tell you!
    I will post a circuit diagram for anyone who's intersted.
    In the meantime here are some pictures to show how discrete it is.
    Regards Bell.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. 123howie

    123howie F1 World Champ

    Jul 3, 2014
    16,017
    El Segundo CA
    Full Name:
    Howie
    #2 123howie, May 25, 2015
    So now what is Emily going to do?
     
  3. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #3 Bell Bloke, May 25, 2015
    Hey Howie, well she's got a 3.2 now so I'll probably end up pushing that!
    Her Fiat X19 has been teriffic, so nothing to do there. ;-)
     
  4. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    #4 Rapalyea, May 25, 2015
    Nice clean installation! I have my Bosch low voltage relay ready to go and it would be a quick installation because my starter just sits there looking at me. Apparently there was a heat shield or something already removed. A curious thing. However, I am no longer using the car as a daily driver subject to short term hot soak problem. For instance today I used it on the routine 40 minute drive for beer and simply let the car idle at the Kwik Stop. Upon returning home I decided to try the starter and it worked?

    Leaving the problem un-corrected keeps me concentrated on using the car for fun, not so much for daily errands. But I should fix it. Eventually will fix it. But in the mean time the car will need to do some idling at the curb side ;)
     
  5. sipes216

    sipes216 Karting

    May 9, 2015
    116
    #5 sipes216, May 25, 2015
    question for you with this.

    with this little mod that you did, are you bypassing the starter switch circuit and installing your own due to bad wiring, or is run off the key-turn, and original wiring back at the engine compartment.

    seems a little redundant, if it's tapped right onto the starting circuit.
     
  6. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    #6 Rapalyea, May 25, 2015
    The wiring to the starter solinoid is weak. So instead of using that weak current to TRY to activate the Bosch starter you use it to activate a Low Voltage solinoid. THAT solinoid then transmits a strong current to the starter solinoid. It can all be done without any mods to original wiring. Amozon: "Bosch Low Voltage Solinoid". About $12 with all the wiring, fuse, and instructions.
     
  7. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    #7 MvT, May 25, 2015
    I guess she deserve you working out on the 3.2 of being a bit lazy of installing this nice solution! ;) Still I think it is the fuse board causing this, but if this is your only electrical gremlin I would indeed go for this too! I have no electrical issues so far other then corroded connectors :)
     
  8. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #8 Bell Bloke, May 25, 2015
    hi Sipes216, Rapalyea is on the money here, that's exactly what I did in the end.
    Just as he said, I used the ignition wire that is supposed to throw the starter solenoid to switch a relay that in turn throws the starter solenoid and starter.
    So basically you turn the key as normal and it starts.
    MvT, I've had that board stripped down and cleaned, switch cleaned, checked relays, swapped relays etc and never been able to pin it down. I don't normally like work arounds but this has been going on long enough and my electrical powers are a little low wattage when it comes to fault finding Italian stuff.
    ;-)
     
  9. FCnew

    FCnew Formula Junior

    May 5, 2015
    687
    Hong Kong / Canada
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    #9 FCnew, May 25, 2015
    Hi Bell:

    Can you tell us a bit about your flat floor pan?
    I always thought the alternator is too exposed; being so close to the ground it can get wet easily. Did you design this floor pan? Do you have pictures? and plans? Maybe you spoke about it in another thread, I tried to search, but you have over a thousand posts.

    Thanks in advance.
    Jonathan
     
  10. FCnew

    FCnew Formula Junior

    May 5, 2015
    687
    Hong Kong / Canada
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    #10 FCnew, May 25, 2015
    Ok... found it. Many thanks. I am starting my study now.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/440830-increasing-flat-floorpan-undertray-area.html
     
  11. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #11 Bell Bloke, May 26, 2015
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  12. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    #12 andyww, May 26, 2015
    This is a worthwhile mod and applies equally to 328.

    These cars have a very convoluted current path from the starter switch to the solenoid and when energised there is a voltage drop of around 2 volts on the wiring even when its in good condition. If one of the many connectors becomes slightly higher resistance there is no chance. The solenoid just clicks if only 9 volts or so are available.

    My 328 has started doing this (again) and I know for a fact the wiring is fine and the starter has been rebuilt, so this is on my list.
     
  13. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #13 Bell Bloke, May 26, 2015
    Hi Andy, many thanks for posting that here, I know that you have talked about this on the 'other side.' Obviously being new to this car in the early days I didn't know that this was a common problem.
    I did my own test and found that when the car was cold I'd get about 10 volts to the solenoid, but when it is hot I only get 7.5volts.
    To be honest I still don't know what it is that gets a high resistance when it's hot but the reading's remain the same to this day, cold car 10volts hot car 7volts...go figure.
    Anyway this solution works perfectly and tonight I will post a pictorial diagram for all you non electrical types out there.
    All the best Bell
     
  14. bbekker

    bbekker Karting

    Jan 16, 2010
    64
    Mexico
    Full Name:
    Bas
    #14 bbekker, May 26, 2015
    Will be very gratefull for the diagram Bell, as I am leaning towards the non electrical types here :)

    For the last few months I have been running into starting problems when the car is hot (and yes, the weather is hot here in Mexico as well). On my last trip to the US I bought the Bosch WR1 starter relay kit, and though the kit has a wiring instructions, your diagram will put the icing on the cake.
     
  15. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
    1,839
    UK
    #15 Bell Bloke, May 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

Share This Page