Preview my latest blog post... *** Hello, my Mondial Brothers... I've been doing some research on the Mondial 8 because I have been fascinated at how such a great car could have become so maligned. The more I read about the car, the more I find out it's all largely myth.... Looking at the 8...one must judge the car by the epoch/era it was built. An uneducated fool would look idiotic if they were to say that the iconic Ferrari 308 is 'slow' because a modern day Honda Accord V6 can edge them out at a stoplight. Taking a 0-60 308 stat of 7.6 seconds & 1/4 mile of 15.6 Source: Car and Driver http://media.caranddriver.com/files/de-lorean-vs-chevy-corvette-datsun-280-zx-ferrari-308gts-porsche-911-comparison-test-car-and-driverde-lorean-vs-chevy-corvette-datsun-280-zx-ferrari-308gts-porsche-911.pdf Latest Accord V6 Test 0-60 5.6 & 1/4 mile of 14.1 Source: Car and Driver 2013 Honda Accord Sedan V-6 Test ? Review ? Car and Driver The 308 was plenty fast for it's time as the review above illustrated, being compared to the other "supercars" of the time. Nevermind that many do not understand the visceral aspects of Ferrari and all the goodness it entails. So why the hate for the 8? (that rhymes by the way) I think I stumbled upon the answer.... cost. It was 20% MORE expensive the venerable 308. The Mondial 8 cost 68,000 + tax when sold new. That's 197,000 + Tax in 2015 dollars to give you perspective. That's a lot of coin, $38,000 more than the legendary 308. Base Price 1980 Mondial = 68,000 = 197,000 + Tax (2015 dollars) Base Price 1980 308 = 55,000 = 159,000 + Tax (2015 Dollars) Can you imagine if the California T costing 20% *more* than the 488? Let me give you more analogies that I think cracks the case. Mercedes E class coupe costing 20% more than Mercedes GT BMW 6 series costing 20% more i8 Porsche Panamera costing 20% more than 911 People understandably are expecting God's Fist itself under the hood with that kind of coin, especially when it's 20% more $$$ than the amazing 308. Price aside, let's compare this fair and square to the offerings of the time (see chart below) I don't see a slow car at all. Was the media fair to the Mondial 8? My answer is a resounding no. If you hate it because you think it is overpriced when new, I do not argue. If you hate it because of looks, I again put up no protest and respect your opinion (though please see picture below.) If you hate it because it is 'unreliable' - I ask you, sir, is it more unreliable then a Maserati Merak? A Lamborghini Urraco? A 308? You are buying one of 700 largely hand built cars that as gone through 7 US presidents, please don't expect Toyota Corolla (and that's a good thing) If sir, however, say it was 'slow'* ... I say to what at the time 1980? A Saturn Rocket? *If you had said a 911 - I would say - touche.' Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sources Here: [3] http://alexachua.com/rt_1981.pdf [5] http://alexachua.com/1981_mt.pdf [6] http://alexachua.com/rt_1975.pdf *I only used US Federal Emission Versions of the cars to keep it a fair test (no Euro spec)
It's a Grand Tourer... and a nicely maintained one will go 80 MPH all day long. 0-60 speeds for the Mondial 8 are meaningless nowadays. Just update the A/C and then you're good to go. But great data to explain what it "lacked" back in the day.
Hi Paul, Just a quick hello. i'm using your original post as an opportunity to acknowledge your love and "educated" passion for all our Mondials. I truly appreciate that you do your homework before you speak/type. It matters not, the subject matter, you think it through before you chatter. Here's to you, mate Hank
I got a couple books full of period literature. Mostly, everyone loved the cars when they came out. That was my impression. And they were more expensive because you got more car. Same bits as the boy racer 308 in a more sophisticated suit with more functionality. The 308 stands nearly alone in it's beauty. The Mondial is a good looking car. Those things one can't compare. The Mondial also has much better head and hat room. The 308 compromises function for fashion, no complaints here. The Mondial triumphs with bringing fashion into function, a violent collision of the two that works so well
Great analysis Paul! I share the opinion on the price difference. Keeping in mind, Wade already mentioned it, that the Mondial is a true GT and not made for the speed of a 308. A true GT comes with comfort thus accessories were added that the 308 does not have, meaning at the same time you carry more weight. However, I believe the complaint came from Ferrari owners that the Mondial was slow comparing it with its sibling 308, which makes sense if you take into account the above. And you have to agree that he 1980 Chevrolet Corvette 5.7Ltr V8 was faster then the Ferraris. 0-60 in 7.7 sec I guess the food supply for the media was there to make a maligned story. And I think you are right that if the price was the same or lower as a 308 the fairy tail would be different, and the Mondial would be considered fast. Ps. Ferrari was mainly targeting the U.S. continent for sell Ferraris at the time. Only a handful of people could afford a Ferrari in those days in Europe and a recession didn't help either, having mortgage interests going up to 13%
Why is it I feel like people are disappointed though when they ask, "Cool! you have a Ferrari? What model?" and you respond "I have a Mondial 8", they seem to give me these judging eyes, that fade with disappointment...I guess even if I owned a 458 or some extravagant model it wouldn't change how I usually go out of my way to NOT talk about my Ferrari, but I just want some love for the Mondi, it's too damn fun to drive to look down the nose at.
I get a lot of interest in my Mondial. Had it at a couple of shows, and many, many people showed interest. Lots of people (young and old) asking to sit in the car. The only negative response seems to come from people who either think they have a "Better Ferrari", or people whom for some reason, feel the need to denigrate all exotics. From the general public, I get 99.9% admiration for the car. To most, it's a Ferrari. To them, it doesn't matter what model - it's a Ferrari and therefore it's exotic. I've had several gas station conversations (some over 30 minutes) with people that just wanted to ask and learn about the car. I love my Mondial, and she is a keeper. I'll probably get another Ferrari someday (400), but the Mondial is a keeper. She has a lovely, subtly curved shape, makes fantastic sounds/noises, is easy to work on, and handles great (some say she handles better than the 3x8). Sid P.S - My car isn't in show car condition. So I don't hesitate to let people sit in the car, poke around in the engine bay, under the hood, etc. I think that really gets people interested. Makes for some great conversations.
That's the brotherhood I love about this model, I really feel it's there. Seeing your passion, and Paul's, that guy REALLY loves these cars, it's awesome to step back and see it all formulate on a truly underdog car. I get some weird looks, it could be because I drive it to weekly basketball, or the grocery store, or the convenience store, and I'm usually not in more than a cut-off and board shorts lol
The 308 is beautiful and would also look great in my garage but my Mondi is a work of art to be appreciated on her own and not compared to others. As to the point about speed. My first car was a TR3 which I happily raced against anyone who'd participate. I was beaten off the line by a VW bug which had more torque in first, but I beat a chevy with a 289 with the help of a couple of curves in the road. My point is no car wins in every category - although I haven't driven a Laferrari or a Porsche 918 yet.
Really appreciate all the kind words my brothers Just a couple more things I forgot to mention...if you read the two negative reviews of the Mondial 8... Road and Track reported their test car had a faulty shifter...so bad that at several points they said it would hop from 4th gear to 2nd gear! For Car and Driver - they admitted they had a pre-production model with several interior defects as well... Did any of these facts make their way into automotive canon? of course not! What mattered in the end was these things 1) It cost 20% more than the perfect 308 (the 308 deservedly should get the praises and high pedestal it created IMHO) 2) It had a detuned engine to meet late 70's/80's federal emissions standards (projected anger?) 3) It had federally mandated black bumpers (which I've grown to love) (like Lambo Countach here: http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/comment-image/166289.jpg) I've recently updated/revised the Wikipedia Page too gentlemen..I've noticed a lot of the photos & info was outdated.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Mondial Enjoy!
Nice write up, Paul. One funny thing I notice is that when I explain to people that the Mondial has the same engine as the 308, and that they are sibling cars except that the Mondial drives better and is more luxurious and rides better they instantly light up with excitement... "Wow, really? Cool!" It's as though I've let them in on some secret knowledge that only certain Ferrari owners are privy to, which i guess I did. Haha. ps- I prefer the black bumper models. Looks more 70's vintage Ferrari to me, whereas the integrated bumpers look more 90's era to me.
I was explaining that very concept (more room, more luxury, better ride) to some non-owners at a recent car show. A largish guy asked if he could try my Mondial on for size, as he said that he wanted a Ferrari, but was having trouble finding one he fit in. (He as about 6'2"-ish, maybe 240lbs). He climbed in, and told me that this was the first vintage Ferrari that he fit comfortably in! Another person won over by the Mondial!!! I too like the black bumpers, although - I think all the Mondials look great. Sid
Thanks Dave! All True!! More creature comforts! Same exact engine/drivetrain as 308/328/348! Every article I read is unanimous (even the 2 negative ones about the 8) when it comes to handling...all say that the Mondial handles better then the 308 for the everyday driver. Don't get me wrong, I won't start a flame war with 308s owners - I fully believe on the track/some roads/experienced drivers the 308/328 would be the better/faster choice...but up in the mountains where my amatuer self dare not go 10/10ths (or wind up in a ditch) - the Mondial's much more forgiving nature is indeed a welcome necessity!
I'll start a flame war! 3X8's a cramped miserable little cars to drive. Mondials are what Enzo Ferrari wanted for himself! Ignoring the 400 of course that I believe he actually drove. Shhhhh.
Just in case there was any doubt the handling prowess of the 8... Article after article... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
oh well...I'd like to point out that it had a "bad start" with the loss in power vs. the carbs since they used injection to meet emission standards not for hi-output (which, when you look at Mercedes at that time for instance, E for Einspritzer was always the more powerful AND economical AND more expensive version). The design exercise is also quite something, for what is, 2+2 seating AND mid-engine AND trunk, the outcome is astonishingly well balanced, but it is a very unusual exercise and leaves me with the thought that it should not be tried. If you want 2+2 the engine better rests in the front ;-) If you look at contemporaries, they were also not the fastest by today's standard. Let's see if you bought Mercedes - the 500 SL would get you 8.5 for the sprint and Vmax of 225km/h BMW - the 635CSi (the M was later) 7.6 and Vmax of 228km/h Jaguar - XJS H.E. V12 7.5 for the sprint and Vmax of 245km/h Porsche 928 - 7.6 and 228 km/h so the Mondial would not be the best but still as a buyer you'd feel you chose from a field of equals. I appreciate it for what it is, a GT with an unusual cabin arrangement, an easy and affordable entry into the Fworld, up to par with its contemporaries and pointless against any recent car in terms of performance, economy and cabin noise. I am sure, if it had been buildt by Lancia or Alfa, they would be their manufacturer's most desirable vintage cars of that aera nowadays...but there are a couple more beautiful, powerful, legendary syblings within the Ferrari family. cheers braq
+1 I tried to buy a 308 sometime around 2000 at the Ferrari dealer in Atlanta, but I would not fit in the car at my slim, but tall size of 6'4", 200. The steering wheel was literally in my lap, no way I could drive it. I have ample room in my Mondial and can even wear my Fedora with the top up when the mood strikes me, lol. Alden
Thanks Paul for your post (from another Paul) Great points. Just a note that my focus has been entirely the 703 examples of the Mondial 8 (1980,1981,1982). The QV, 3.2, and t never had any question of performance from any article in my quest to consolidate all articles. Don't take my word for it! Peruse a complete collection of Mondial articles on the web on my site! For the QV, 3.2, and t - a not one ounce of doubt on its performance. It was only two specific articles on the 8 in 1981. One article admitted they had a faulty shifter; the second admitted they had a pre-production model with other visible interior defects. The one review that had what I argue had the fully representative model (in which they actually drove across the United States, had none of the issues of the other 2 publications. You gave me a fantastic suggestion to also throw other cars into the comparative analysis. You mentioned a few cars but remember - my main thesis is one must judge a car by its peers at the time. Not fair to compare a 1980 Mondial 8 to a 1986 Mercedes; yet it happens. Mainly because most people don't understand the Mondial had 4 distinct iterations, most people couldn't tell the difference between a Mondial t and a Mondial 8....to most - it's just a Mondial. So you easily start comparing Mondial 8 stats to cars made way after production ceased because a "Mondial" is a "Mondial." So hey, a 1993 Camero is faster than a 1982 Mondial 8? Well..yeah. But all people know is Mondials were made in 1993 so it must be the same as the one made in 1982. Here are the cars you put up for analysis: Namely: 1980 Mercedes 380 SL/SLC (560 SL did not come out until 1986) Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_R107_and_C107#North_American_models (50 Less HP, More weight then the Mondial 8 - one can deduce which car is faster) 1980 BMW 633 CSi . The 635 CSi not available in the US due to emissions issues, the very same emissions issues the Mondial 8 had to contend with - The word "Mondial" means "world" in French...the car was designed at the get go to pass strict performance robbing US emissions.) (The Bimmer had 174 HP vs 205 for the 8 and had more weight!) 1980 XJ-S Non HE (to keep it fair; the 8 was subject to strict US emissions as was the Non-HE) One should compare it to the Non-HE to be fair. You mentioned three other cars: 635 M (came out in 1986) XJ-S HE (came out in 81, after the 8) These should be compared to the QV not the 8 Mondial QV had a 0-60 time of 6.4/qtr mile 14.5 Source: Motor Magazine http://alexachua.com/motor_oct_1982.pdf Again comparable. The 560SL should be compared to 3.2 since the SL 560 came out in 1986 Again comparable. Heck, I'm going to throw in the Stingray Corvette, so the USA is represented! 1980 Corvette 0-60 7.6 1/4 Mile 15.9 Source: Car & Driver http://media.caranddriver.com/files/1980-chevrolet-corvette-road-test-review-car-and-driver1980-chevrolet-corvette.pdf Faster, but with 1/4-mile times of 15.9 vs. 16.2 for the Mondial - not exactly earth shattering. I hope I don't come off as haughty, please do not take offense....my post can seem rather pretentious. I defend Mondials as one would defend a beloved family member. My point has all along been this: the Mondial 8 is probably one of the most misunderstood, misrepresented, misreported cars in history. Call it overpriced (when new, definitely not now), call it ugly (nothing new, Edmunds called the California T one of the ugliest Ferrari, don't get me started on the nasty stuff I hear about Ferrari FF), call it more unreliable than a Honda Civic (it's funny how people say it's unreliable comparing it to non-exotics....the Buggati Veyron costs $20K for mandatory regular service...as in you are REQUIRED to do it or it breaks), but please for the love of intellectual honesty - please don't say it was a horrible performer compared to other cars in 1980-1982* Cheers *If you said versus the 911...I gracefully yield....though the Prancing horse quickly caught up with the QV, 3.2, and t...(non-turbo model of the 911 of course...haha) But then again, I am guaranteed to see at least *one* 911 on any of my long drives of varying vintages, along with plenty of Corvettes, Bimmers, Jags, Mercedes...dime a dozen........ the number of Mondials I see? zippo, nada, nill, null, zero...that's in 2+ years of ownership! (outside Ferrari meets) that reality is worth it's weight in gold to me. It's sort of like showing up at a fancy party with the same exact 'cool' shirt as one or two other dudes there...just never sat well with me.
Hi Paul, my picks for peers clearly shows my European bias, the 500SL, 635CSi, 928S and HE would have been on the cover of Auto,Motor und Sport in Germany around the time the Mondial 8 made it's appearance ;-) (the HE from July 1981 on) So my imaginary buyer (packed with 2 year's of issues of his favorite car magazine spending his weekend deciding which will be his next car) is located in Europe, yours in North America (and I have a feeling the guy west of the Atlantic had less performance to look at, as in Europe the catalytic converter was regarded a strange animal feared for the resulting loss in HP). So keep up the good work, I especially love the article on your site that discusses the switch to 4 valves, cheers braq
