Passenger Window Motor #2

from pulling the motor on the mondial 85' qv on sidtx's (mine-basically), i can say that those look very identical.
for as expensive as some of these parts can be *cough-sunroof-Cough*

i'd say go for it.
just don't make the mistake we did when pulling it out.

take a picture of the cable routing, and use something to bind, or hold tension on the cables at the winding spool on top of the motor.

if those cables don't sit back right, it's a massive pain. it won't work and makes bad noises.

 

Wondering if you bought the motors and they worked on Mondial?

 

Just for info, you can get a mod that makes these windows move quicker.

 

More info on mod?

 

Yes, don't drop that bomb and leave us hang. Please more info on this mod.

 

You may start your search here:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/317471-slow-window-dual-relay-mod-amazing.html

This is a fix created by Birdman. All thanks go to him!

 

Easier solution for $120 a pair:
Ferrari Window Accelerators 308 328 348 Mondial 512 Testarossa | eBay
Alden

 

All the accelerators in the world will not resolve the window problem until you take it apart and clean that awful old hard grease from the worm gear and cable gear. One my best friends (he'd better be after this job) came for a visit and offered to look into the window situation. He is a professional mechanical/electrical engineer with a large classic car collection so it was just an interesting challenge for him.

We started with the passenger door as it is easier. He did read the post that has been mentioned here several times. It was helpful but not exactly the same as on my 85 QV. The first thing he did was note the order the panels came off so he could put them back on. Then he did a diagram of the cable system.

Once he started looking around, as an electrical engineer he said, this is a two wire sytem there is no ground so that is never a problem with this window. Of course clean the contacts.

The next thing he did is pluck the cables which gave off a clear note. "F-sharp, of course" he joked. The problem is, when it the window full up, the cables are left under amazing tension actually pulling the tension arm out slighlty from the frame. He recommends any time in the garage to back off the switch just a touch so that the cables and pulleys are not under tension.

We cleaned contacts and cables but it was no use, the motor was stuck. Luckily, I put a piece of tape across the switch two years ago when I bought the car. I have been thinking myself lucky that the driver side could work, with just a bit of help. What we found of course after having to take out the motor, that as has been noted, the grease just turns into hard candy and I have ruined the driver side cables.

In our opinion, no amount of squirting something through holes will dissolve this stuff. You have to take the motor off the door and the plastic gear box apart. What you will see is a worm gear and cable gear totally encrusted with the stuff. The only way is to soak it and then clean it by picking each gear space.

Mac did not take the cable off the spool. As you can see from the pics, he put a bucket under the door so we could soak the cable spool with the cables attached. And actually the cables are slack in the door. You have to work to pick the stuff off the pulleys too as you cant soak them. One thing we learned after the first door, is before you unbolt the cable/motor system, drop the window about an inch and use duct tape to hold it in place. It saves a lot of adjusting later.

We had to find a solvent that would not be hard on plastic yet dissolve the hardened grease. Even after soaking overnight, it took a brass brush and a nail set to clean out the grooves on the gears.

Then he wound the extra cable back over the spool each side going in the opposite direction. It was then you have to duct tape the cable at the exit to the housing so that you can put the spool back in the housing along with the worm gear and the two small bearings, all of which need to be thoroughly cleaned.

In putting it all back together, he put on only one bolt (of the three) so that he could restring the cable over the pulleys with just enough tension to keep in in the grooves yet pop the housing back into its position too. Then of course put on a good silicon grease on the cables and pulleys so it wont clog again.

There was a bit of adjusting required at the end. The windows are actually held on the cables by a clamp on both sides. So you adjust up or down by loosening/tightening. We found that if we put a couple blocks of wood in the door to rest the window on while leveling, it made it easier.

In the end, the passenger window works like it should. Not fast up, but no need for an accelerator. Driver door on the other hand, my forcing it to work this last year has pretty well destroyed the cables and pulleys. So it doesn't work all that much better than before. The only thing now will be to replace the cable and pulleys. The motor and gears are fine. I guess I 'll have to wait for Macs next visit.

It was a two day job when done due to time to allow the solvent to work. Now at least the passenger window works. Unfortunately, you cant pay tolls from the passenger side...
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A great post and helpful pictures. My drivers side window mechanism is gummed up and slow. I've actually been putting this job off and doing everything else first! Gulp.... I'd better tackle it the next long weekend I have.

 

Excellent info ....

 

Thanks for the details.

I would tackle the job, but, quite honestly, to a lot of folks that looks like brain surgery, and very scary if you don't know what you are doing.
Alden

 

We first tried to use the handle that comes with the car. Of course there was no movement. The problem was the gummed up gears. It had nothing to do with the amount of force applied, it was stuck.

I think also its a product of this use of cables to raise and lower a heavy piece of tempered glass and mounting. Perhaps if it was a crank and lever system it could be done but this is all about the main cable gear being able to turn with the worm gear in the plastic gear box. Perhaps they were looking to save weight or did not think about this car being 30 years old.

Despite the engineering, it is the grease that was used that is the culprit. This has been written about on the other slow window threads. But I could not believe how hard and thick it remained even after an overnight soaking.

So until you clean the gear mechanism, hand cranking is no better than the motor. And then the motor works so you dont need to crank. And we are back to taking apart the door panels and cleaning the mechanism.

Alden is correct in my opinion. It is truly not a difficult task in the end. As Mac said, "Some engineer just ran up some numbers on forces and pulleys and drew this up and handed it on to the guys in the factory. They made it as light and minimal as possible. You just have to follow the logic on how it works." Spoken from one engineer to another.

However, this aint exactly beanbag either. Unless you have a lift or have the car somewhat up in the air, all this work is done on your knees. The grease is an unbelievable goo that has to be constantly scraped from your tool or it just keeps sticking back on. And getting the cabling back on correctly on first the spindle in the gear box and then on the pulleys and then snapping the motor into place, that is the real challenge.

He just worked the entire thing one step at a time. We did have a print out of the long article from FChat and that helped him see all the steps ahead. I could barely get past the unscrew the screw holding the door latch mechanism and was already lost. But for those of you who do your own stuff, this will be just another day, another dirty job.

The key to making this doable was leaving the cable on the spool and doing the cleaning while the cable was still attached and inside the door. There are other posts about how difficult it is to cut the cable the exact length needed and then restringing. And as that is what I need now, I'm not sure I have the confidence to do that job, even having had the recent experience. But then what's the worst that can happen? I take my door panels and cable and pieces to Maurice my mechanic and plead, "Make it go. Make it go fast."

 

When I bought my 1985 Mondial QV the emergency manual handle window winder was not in the car - I have tried Eurospares and numerous other companies to buy a replacement with no luck.

Does anybody know where to get a replacement handle and even one for the sunroof, are they the same?

 

I have a 1982, and this is exactly what mine looks like

Ferrari 246 GTE Window Emergency Crank Concours Quality New | eBay

 

Sorry to take a while getting the link back to you. I have been out enjoying cars this last week and not keeping up with correspondence.

Here is the Birdman link. As I wrote above, it is not exactly the same as the mondial but it gives good basic advice. There are also some links to other posts at the end of it.

Power Window Service, Ferrari 308

And as we did not want to have to deal with restringing cable (which I would replace it if I get that far), we left the cable attached to the spool and did the cleaning of those parts in a bucket of solvent under the door as shown in the pics.

As we did not have to cut the cable, we started with the door dropped just an inch or so and then taped in place before we unloosened the clamps of the cable to the window.

The doors are also framed differently from the 308 and I think there is a bit more space to work. The motor does not come out through the speaker hole as in these pics. But it does give a good step by step on the basic process.