Issue after starting | FerrariChat

Issue after starting

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by porchnut, Nov 8, 2015.

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  1. porchnut

    porchnut Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2014
    282
    Tucson, AZ
    Full Name:
    Andrew Bober
    Yesterday when I started my '86 Cab to go to the car show it had a very rough idle and took a few blocks to actually run smoothly and seemed like it was going to stall. Same thing happened when I left the car show. Appreciate any ideas to the problem :-(
     
  2. porchnut

    porchnut Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2014
    282
    Tucson, AZ
    Full Name:
    Andrew Bober
    Finally found a thread posted by Ron Frohock on 10-08-11 on "Rough idle after start...", need to go through this whole posting again when I get a chance, have a busy week with the '62 Porsche in the shop and the motorhome as well. Love things when they run, but not so much when they don't...........:-(
     
  3. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    16,096
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    hmmm....we I had this problem it was down to fuel pumps...

    best of luck Andrew
     
  4. porchnut

    porchnut Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2014
    282
    Tucson, AZ
    Full Name:
    Andrew Bober
    Does anyone have a picture or two of the Oxygen sensor control system in the rear trunk of their '86 Cab.? I haven't totally ripped out the carpet just pulled up the right edge and couldn't see the panel which is suppose to be covering the control board. Not sure if it is on the far right edge which per OM suggests or in the middle, which would mean tearing out the carpet. Thanks, Andy
     
  5. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Feb 9, 2014
    4,454
    Frisco, Tx
    Full Name:
    Sid
    although with mine, the roughness dissappears after about 15 seconds of idle.

    I haven't investigated fully yet, but some of the causes I've been "encouraged" to look at are:

    1. Fuel Pump - apparently old seals and lines degrade, causing some blockage on a screen in the fuel pump
    2. Fuel Filters - time for a new one anyway.
    3. Fuel Accumulator - I think I'm going to replace this also.

    Other thoughts that I've had are:

    1. Leaking/dripping fuel injector
    2. Leaking/dripping cold start valve - although, this probably isn't my problem, as I've replaced this recently.


    Sid
     
  6. sipes216

    sipes216 Karting

    May 9, 2015
    116
    #6 sipes216, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
    if you could look around the car for a few symptoms other than just the hard start.

    you should look for things like a raw fuel odor from a pressurized fuel line leaking or starting to seep, look for anything suspicious that does not fire up in the right order or things that aren't ticking like they should be.

    we had a odd rough start on sidtx's 85 mondie for a while. first thing we investigated was the cold start valve (bolted to side of intake mani.) and found a seepage and wetness in the area the day AFTER it had run. we replaced this guy with a reman, and grabbed as many like-units from Volvos and Mercedes as we could find at the pick n pulls to stock our parts warehouse.

    after we replaced this doohickey we still noticed a strong raw fuel odor that wasn't just permeating back through the air intakes while the car was off.
    on the right rear fender area there are 4 or 5 fuel lines that run between the fuel tank, the accumulator (like we should replace anyways) and the cis unit. we made a day out of it and replaced 3 or 4 of these hoses and instantly the residual fuel odor was gone.
    car starts up really nicely now too!

    other than this, make sure that all your other connections are good. spark plugs are correct, plug wires are down good, dizzy has a good cap and rotor contacts... the basic stuff.
    often times on dizzy cars people overlook the distributor systems as a whole.
     
  7. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    #7 MvT, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Check the extension/extenders fitted on your spark plugs. If they have burn spots on the outside. Easy check and it rules out at least one of the dozen things that could be the cause. Recently I had this issue when she started to idle rough at traffic lights.

    Congratulations with your first place price! :D:D
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
    1,096
    PB County, Florida
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Maybe it is obvious, but I will note it sounds like it might just be one bank of cylinders not firing, not all 8. So it can be fuel, or just as likely, electrical issue affecting one bank of cylinders. Fuel demand at idle is minimal.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
  9. porchnut

    porchnut Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2014
    282
    Tucson, AZ
    Full Name:
    Andrew Bober
    Well, I went out and was determined to find this board, it is right where the manual shows it. However to get it out I will need to remove the electric antenna also, guess this is going to wait for another day. Ferrari couldn't make things easy, about as bad as the battery design.Andy
     
  10. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2010
    1,176
    Rotterdam
    Full Name:
    Johan
    According the symptoms I don't expect the O2 sensor system is faulty. The O2 system is only used when the sensor is warm, during cold start situations the mixture control system is in open loop state. The symptoms are more pointing towards a failing mixture enrichment in cold situations. Sometimes it's the over-voltage protection relay of the mixture controller which disconnects the power to the mixture controller. There is a fuse on top of the protection relay, it's good to check this fuse. The controller and the relay is located in the trunk nearby the O2 sensor system. If I am correct, US versions does have a frequency valve to control the mixture, this valve should be buzzing. If not this is also pointing towards the over-voltage protection relay and/or the mixture controller.
     
  11. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,645
    Canada
    Crank position sensor?
     
  12. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2004
    1,073
    If there was fuel starvation due to blockage it would be worse under acceleration which does not seem to be the case.

    Try disabling the cold start circuit (there are two ways to do this). See if that helps. If so then the cold start is not working correctly.
     
  13. porchnut

    porchnut Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2014
    282
    Tucson, AZ
    Full Name:
    Andrew Bober
    Yesterday I tackled this starting issue again, with my very weak and I mean very weak knowledge of mechanics on cars. I found the oxygen sensor board as I stated earlier, but said the electric antenna had to be removed first, well did that, got the board out, was able to check the 10 amp fuse and it was good. There the story ends. I am not sure what I am looking for when everyone talks about the "Frequency Valve", I see it in electrical diagrams, but have no idea what it looks like. Is it on the oxygen sensor board? If not where is it and a picture of it would really be helpful, like that old saying, A picture is worth a thousand words. At least to someone not mechanically minded.
    Side note, took it out to fill it up with gas yesterday and it still ran rough, giving it gas it would hesitate, cough and sputter and then take off as normal, after about 2 miles the car ran perfect on its way home, no sign of running rough or anything.
     
  14. porchnut

    porchnut Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2014
    282
    Tucson, AZ
    Full Name:
    Andrew Bober
    Well, I finally gave in and took the car to my mechanic to solve the starting and run issue. What he found was an issue with the intake hoses and VAC hoses. Replaced the hoses and the intake spacers and VAC hoses and solved the problem. Also had him install the Low Voltage Relay Kit, and change the trans oil to Red Line (haven't really noticed a great difference on the drive home with the new oil in trans, still stiff). Need to take car back on Monday because now it doesn't idle at stop lights (goes from 400 rpm to 1200 rpm) and sometimes just dies. Oh the fun...........
    Andy
     

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