Mondial T gear box troubles - rebuild imminent | FerrariChat

Mondial T gear box troubles - rebuild imminent

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by stekkefun4, Apr 10, 2016.

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  1. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    I have a T of 1992 with about 100K km's for about 18 months now. Personally, I have driven this car about 1000km and I'm hearing this continuous whistling noise when it's in gear, but that is no reason for panicking. When I press the clutch pedal, the noise is gone and only the engine can be heard. Next to that, while driving forward, I hear that typical reverse gear sound from time to time when I very gently push the throttle. Finally, when I drove it today and shifted down to first, I heard a grinding noise from 1st gear even with the clutch pedal fully pressed. Time for some serious work.

    Anyhow, I know that at least the bearings inside the gearbox have to be replaced, that's where the whistling noise comes from. The clutch has already been replaced and the engine has had a major for a total of 8K euro (including some work on the sensors that proved to only have helped 50%). Hopefully, the gears don't have to be replaced as they are MUCHOS expensive!

    This is going to be done by Officina Valenti in Brussels and I'll keep you guys informed on the status.
     
  2. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    Are you sure it's not diff noise? Backlash?
     
  3. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    Diff has been redone completely some months ago, so I'm sure it's not diff. There are plenty of abnormal sounds coming from the gearbox.
     
  4. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
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    Dion also has /had transmission problems with his T. It was making a terrible howling sound (not whistling). Can you record the sound? stick a GoPro on the bumper. I like to hear if it is the same.

    Dion needed to replace a pinion gear and all the bearings. Quick calculation on parts I did at the time was around 2500/3000 euro.

    What a bummer Stekkefun4!
     
  5. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    Not really a bummer, I knew the gearbox needed a lot of attention when I bought it for a more or less cheap price. But now the time has come to put some money on the table. I'll record the sound with my iPhone tomorrow.
     
  6. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    it's being rebuilt , will take a month at least. The mechanic told me the worst part will be finding the bearings. Hopefully the gears themselves won't have to be changed.
     
  7. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
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    Even in time to go with the T to Italy�� IMHO finding bearings would be least of the problem. They are all standard sizes, but if it is open better change them.
     
  8. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    I hope it won't be a cascade of things to change. You start with replacing one bearing and end up with a new gearbox ;)
     
  9. dimibo

    dimibo Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
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    Dion Bosch
    my gearbox is completely done, and inside there was more damage than we thought...it ended up with a complete gearbox rebuilt, also decided to clean up everything inside, now a few more days to rebuilt, searching for parts was not easy ! and the total investment is far far far more than only the initial calculated 2-3k But I am very pleased with the result (images on request PM)
     
  10. dimibo

    dimibo Karting

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    #10 dimibo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. dimibo

    dimibo Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
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    #11 dimibo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    that's looking very impressive. What was the reason why it got rebuilt?
     
  13. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
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    Wow, that looks indeed stunning!
     
  14. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    beautiful!!!
     
  15. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    #15 stekkefun4, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    so, here we are. The gearbox has been opened and the verdict is that most of the bearings have to be replaced. The gears are still in excellent condition, but the ugliest thing is the "bearing support flange" and "thrust bearing assembly with flange". Apparently, 'Serge Power' has used the wrong part# while repairing my clutch for 6K euro! Result is that both parts are damaged as you can see on these pictures. They forced it in but the internal seals broke and the car would have grinded to a halt anyway if this was not repaired. You can see that the edge in the middle has worn off and the seal is missing pieces. Unbelievable, knowing that "Serge Power" deliberately used the wrong part!

    Now, I have to look for these parts (144984 and 177784) ... together with the bearings.
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  16. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula 3
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    Sounds like you are getting a free gearbox rebuild ... although in these matters it's proper to let the original mechanic that screwed up do the work.
     
  17. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 Wade, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    How could they use the "wrong part"? Either it fits or it doesn't. If it does then i.e. correct part.

    From your photos, that thrust bearing looks like a Hill unit, which is the best available and a significant upgrade from the OEM bearings. Try a search in the 348 Forum for more information.

    Here's a comparison of the Hill parts (left and front) and the OEM (rear and right). Plus my 25 year old bearing support flange.
    .
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  18. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 Wade, Jun 24, 2016
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    However, installation does appear to be questionable when looking at the blue seals.

    Note though, that a "split" in the seal is correct as per Ricambi America.
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  19. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    #19 stekkefun4, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
    From what I have seen, they installed a newer Hill thrust bearing assembly on an OEM bearing support flange and from what I read on Superformance (CRB-355M-S should only be fitted with the later style flanges #168589 & #158209. An easy way to tell if you have this style flange is by measuring the spring hole centers shown in the diagram on the right. Early flanges have a dimension of 82mm while the later flange as shown has 86mm.
    If you have the early-type flange, simply replace the flange with #CRBF-348-355M at the same time.), HILL and OEM combo's are not compatible.
     
  20. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 Wade, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
    Yes, Ricambi warns:

    "This bearing should only be used with gearboxes > 2439. If used on a 348, the preload springs will not be in exact alignment with the flange. 348 owners, we recommend use of the original cast iron bearing 155226."

    So based on that, it's an incorrect fit (e.g. preload spring mis-alignment).

    In mine, I went with the kit:

    CRB348/355-KIT Release Bearing Kit - Ricambi America, Inc.
     
  21. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    I'll go for the Hill Engineering parts as they are less expensive than the Ricambi parts, though Ricambi looks to be selling HE parts too.
     
  22. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 Wade, Jun 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
    Yes, Ricambi America is a distributer for HE.

    With HE being on your side of the world (UK) their parts are priced lower for you.

    177784 - 177784 Flange & Bearing Kit by: Hill Engineering - Hill

    Except maybe for today; due to the BREXIT vote, the British Pound might go very low to the US dollar. ;)
     
  23. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    Rebuilt was done successfully and there are no more strange sounds at all... Costed us 8000 euro. Most difficult thing was to get hold of the correct bearings. Next to that, 2 pinions were replaced that were worn.
     
  24. EXCELSE

    EXCELSE Karting

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    Hmm Serge Power, they did a mayor before I took delivery.
    It was payed by the seller, only belts were done no bearings.
    I went straight to my trusted classic car mechanic Cartek in Kortrijk to have it all redone, since all external bearings were noisy,even one cam was wrongly timed!!.
    Tensioners replaced by Hills, new inner and outer belt drive bearings and the two waterpump tensioner bearings, I did not want to take the risk.
    It was a different sounding engine when work was done.
     
  25. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    That sounds VERY familiar! My Mondial T has been turning like a bulldozer even after they tried to tune it for about 5 times. Finally, when I went to Officina Valenti they tuned it in a couple of hours and since then it purrs like a kitten.
     

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