Engine Oil Temps High | FerrariChat

Engine Oil Temps High

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Rapalyea, Jun 4, 2016.

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  1. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    My engine oil temps during hot runs very easily hit 230F indicated. By itself this is not much of a concern and I have determined not to exceeded 230F; treating it as a sort of "slow down" warning. My oil fan never worked and I did not replace it when I replaced the oil cooler itself, but I wonder if that oil cooler could actually keep the oil temp down under such driving conditions given its rather meager surface area.

    The conditions are these. Repeated full throttle runs from turn to turn in my mountains at 4,000 - 6,500 rps in second and third gear. The total time to reach 230F indicated is less then five minutes. These cars are supposed to be track capable which means continuous running at 4k and above. This car might never finish its third lap!

    What is odd is this: the car runs like gang busters. Like a deranged humming bird. And the depressurized cooling system (60-40 glycol) during hot runs never moves above normal. The only time it activates the cooling fans is at idle after a long time. All this has been going on for three years and 15,000 miles. I have not added one ounce of coolant.

    Its not a big deal and as I said above, I use the oil temp like the Voice Of God "SLOW DOWN!) It simply something that has stumped me the entire time I have had this car. Its ALWAYS been this way. Ferrari cooling systems are supposed to overheat, not the oil?
     
  2. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,913
    Central Florida
    Rap,
    I am sure Ferrari would not have spent the money to put the fan on the oil cooler unless it was necessary.

    Might try fixing that and see if your oil temps come down a bit.

    I can hear when my oil cooler fan kicks on, especially with the top down, and it does so whenever I am really running her up the RPM scale.
    Alden
     
  3. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    220..?!! oh lord that is high! Mine came sporadically close to 220 last year in Italy. I knew then I needed to change my radiator. With the new radiator it does not come over 202 anymore even when it is bloody hot outside and driving traffic jams. My oil fan cooler kicks in rarely nowadays.

    I rather change my radiator the my fan to be honest. But like Alden said, it is on it for a reason.
     
  4. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    1,168
    Virginia Beach
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Check your engine ground strap.

    Mine had oil interfering with the continuity which caused the oil temp guage to run high. It was odd because my coolant was normal and new something was off. After cleaning it went back to normal.

    Just my past experience.
     
  5. Jeka

    Jeka Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2010
    1,176
    Rotterdam
    Full Name:
    Johan
    #5 Jeka, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I took this photo 25 minutes ago, both the water and oil cooler fans were blowing. The water temperature is approx. 90 Celcius or 194 Fahrenheit, the oil temperature is approx 75 Celcius or 167 Fahrenheit. It looks like your reading is a bit high.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2010
    614
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Ferrari started putting on oil cooler fans from the 3.2 model on.

    My qv has only high temp after repeatidly accelerating/braking.
    But the temp cools down to normal directly after my fooling around.

    Fix the fan and your oil will run cooler.
     
  7. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,121
    Calgary, AB, Canada
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    230F? Not a problem for the oil or lubrication - no harm would come from that oil temperature.

    First suspicion if this is higher than 'normal' - get the electrics checked - sending unit, gauge, ground, as suggested.

    Even then - I'd consider 250F to be the upper operating limit for conventional mineral oil. For synthetic oil, it's good to 270F before I'd worry.

    On the other hand, 160F or 170F? Way too low for an operating temperature, I'd worry far more about 170F than 230F. At 170F, the oil viscosity is still too high, it's keeping the engine components temperatures lower than their design operating temp (from a thermal expansion viewpoint), and it won't be properly boiling off any accumulated condensation and moisture. I won't even use full throttle on an engine with oil temp below 190F, because it's not fully warmed up at less than that.
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,083
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Gordon- Absolutely correct. 230 F would definitely be an issue for water temperature, but not in the slightest for oil temperature. That temperature works great for cooking off water, gasoline, and anything else that might be in the oil that is not desired. According to the OM for the 3.2 Mondial, if she gets up to 266 degrees, then you should start to see what is wrong.
     
  9. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,248
    The Netherlands - NH
    Full Name:
    Tijn
    Sorry, I was having the water temp in my mind. Then you have an issue. on average I have 215 on the oil temp gauge and 200 on the water one. Close to Jeka's pic.
     
  10. dfranzen

    dfranzen Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 31, 2013
    1,577
    Ponte Vedra Beach , FL
    Full Name:
    Don Franzen
    David

    The oil fan is definitely there to help suck in air to keep the oil radiator cooler. This is really noticeable at slow speed and stop and go traffic when there is little airflow through your side grill.

    Driving in LA traffic stop and go traffic in the summer time I can see when the fan is kicking on and off.

    Take a look at some of the newer super cars and they have fans and radiators for oil , brake, trans and of course coolant.
     
  11. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2010
    614
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Bart

    Nowadays, the multigrade synthetic oils are designed to have perfect lubrication in a wide range of working temperatures.
    I'ld worry more on the coolant temp than the oil temp. Too low coolant temperature: all different metals are still expanding to working temp, so gentle on the trottle. If coolant working temp is reached (90°C), you can step on it, even of oil temperature is still low-ish (from 50°C and up)
     
  12. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,913
    Central Florida
    I thought the oil temperature was an indicator that the entire engine was warmed up and good to go. The coolant temp comes up so quick, and it takes a long time for the oil temp to come up, I always wait until the oil temp comes up a little bit before going above 3K and then go gently until it comes up a bit more to 4K and then once it's in the normal range can do what you want ??

    Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
     
  13. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2010
    614
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Bart
    If water temp is at working temperature: 90°C,
    oil temp will allready be at 50°C

    If water working temperature is fully reached you can allready play around.

    I tend to keep the engine under 3k rpm when cold, but sometimes a peak to 4K.
    When working temp of water is reached I play around untill 6k rpm.
    When I practiced at least 20kms I go to redline. (But redline is no must to enjoy her to the max) And when I'm touching redline during numerous heavy accelerations, my oil temp goes to 100-110°C. I give her afterwards some time to cool down a bit in constant velocity stretch (70 to 140 km/h)


    These engines are bullitproof!
     
  14. redlightrich

    redlightrich Karting

    Jul 28, 2009
    98
    north New Jersey USA
    Full Name:
    Rich
    Hello original poster, we would like to "solve" this for you. What caused you to change the oil cooler?
    Are you certain the fan doesn't work? Or is it possible you haven't noticed?
    Is you current gauge reading very different than it used to be?

    If so, what occurred prior to the increase in temp?

    I am sure you have already checked the oil level?

    As stated earlier, 230F is not cause for alarm in itself, even if the temp approaches that number fairly quick ( many variables here ) It will not continue to heat up in a linear fashion. At a certain point, it will stabilize and cease to increase.

    Based on your answers, this may be normal. However, many responses already hit on good courses of action.

    Regards

    Rich
     
  15. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    I changed the oil cooler because there was a weeping leak in one of the fin areas. It dripped enough to need a quart of oil every 500 miles or so. Mostly it was just a dripping mess. Incidentally, a new oil cooler cost $2,000 and no one had it in stock. I got a used one for about $600 but it is an item that can be easily rigged up from any number of aftermarket sources. And of course most people do not even need one.

    My Local Wrench noticed the fan was bad when he changed out my clutch system. The fan seems to have become overly stiff from lack of exercise. When I changed out the oil radiator I did not have him rig up a new fan because the car is thirty years old - I should not be doing things that need an oil cooling fan!

    Now I know the car can go to 260F or more. This is something I have suspected for awhile since motorcycle guys sometimes talk about that as the optimum temp for synthetic. I run 50/50 mineral/syn because I have become suspicious of leaks with full synthetic. And of course the original installation was a blend.
     
  16. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    You are a man after my own heart! Have you seen my post concerning the 1/2 mile drag race I attended a couple of weeks ago? My agenda was to make three runs testing 7,500 rpm shift; 7,000 rpm shift; and 6,500 rpm shift. I needed a FOURTH run because ... drum roll.... each of the three consecutively runs produced a FASTER end speed!

    Accordingly I did a fourth run shifting at 6,000 rpms. It was the fastest at 114.78 mph. The higher shift points were only a little bit slower - about 1.5 mph total spread over all four runs. However, this empirical test confirmed my seat of the pants judgement - the car is most fun between about 4,500 rpm and 6,500 rpms.

    Which should not be a surprise since that straddles the advertised torque peak at 5,500 rpms (?).
     
  17. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    If you still have problems after getting the fan working, there is an uprated oil cooler available to give greater cooling. An after market firm here in the uk sell them.
    You need to bear in mind that without the fan you are just cooking the oil when you slow down, when in fact the fan should be getting rid of the heat when the engine load is less.
     
  18. bigeasy

    bigeasy Formula Junior

    Dec 31, 2012
    368
    At what Temp. does your Oil Cooler kick in? I jumped mine, and it works, but have yet to hear it run on its own. Even with the high air temps here in So, Mississippi, the oil temps never seem to get above 220-230F. Might be due to the air flow coming in on all our open roads and few traffic snarls.
     
  19. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,215
    Hong Kong
    Just a tad under 195 water and 210 oil on my Euro QV (no oil cooler) not matter what I do here in HK (highway/traffic jam/mountain roads), at 86/very humid outside. All systems OEM.
     
  20. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2008
    3,215
    Hong Kong
    ... should read (no oil cooler FAN)
     
  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    If the oil cooler is orginal, it might be an idea to chemically clean it internally.
     
  22. felkind

    felkind Karting

    Jul 20, 2015
    90
    Nashua, NH
    Full Name:
    Fred
    My 84 QV (US Model) has a Ferrari oil cooler fan which seems original. Maybe in US but not Euro models?
     
    JayG likes this.

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