Ok Guys and Gals, out today in Kato, who incidently has nearly worn out his rear tyres after only 1 year! Anyway I noticed a certain reluctance on his part to pull away 2nd as normal, also he will normally dribble around at 1000rpm in top ie 5th gear on a level surface no problem. This is not somthing I do usually but it is a test, and today Kato seemed hesitant. Anything over 1500rpm and all is well but I've got a feeling something is about to go south. Right, not done any tests so far other than hold each of the coil packs in my hand, one of which is warmer than the other. Now I don't know if this is within limits, it's certainly not hot but it is warmer than the other which is also warm. Anyway I don't expect any diagnosis at this very early stage, but Just thought I'd report in that's all. We've been using Kato one hell of a lot and he's been totally fab!! If he's not been chasing stuff then we have been 4 up and going out to dinner etc etc, what an excellant sociable car thats cheap on fuel too! More Tests: Anyway once he has cooled down I will do a cold start test and see if any pots are not firing up right away. If it's coils then I guess they will start to fail as they get hot. Obviously I will strobe all the HT cables and check there.....and so on...... Will report back regards Bell Bloke.
Sorry to hear it. You might try the dark garage test to look for arcing. Also those pesky extenders. Both quick and cheap to check. Good luck. I feel a bit foolish mentioning. You are much more of a tech than I.
The coils will show different temps after 5 miles from cold, plus you will start getting misfires . Happened to me. Have you tried Reddex fuel treatment in the tank, i assume u r injection then injection cleaner. Any sign of the sump level rising for no reason ?
OK Gents and Gentettes, here is a video showing me doing a quick 30 min test to find out what is going on..... https://youtu.be/lX0vwhlDSVE
Hey Guys, all thoughts and input here is very welcome. I thought it would be fun to post here and do some fault diagnosis. It's interesting that now you can actually hear (even on the video) how rough Kato is on idle, so a rapid deterioration from the other day already. Next thing to check is sensor plugs and do the test without the vacuum attached. Finally to swap plugs on the 2 ecu units and see if the problem then migrates to 1-4 cylinders. Anyway thank goodness there are no head gasket issues, a check in the oil and water showing that all is well there. Kind regards Bell Bloke.
I would think it was a bad coil. I did have an intermittent coil failure once. Easy test to swap the coils.
I seem to remember seeing a thread on here something about a hairline crack or something on a rotor arm, cant recall exactly
Bell Bloke, just a suggestion is the coil amplifier module breaking down. My 1988 3.2 mondial ignition coil Module BKL3B failed last summer which meant it would only fire on cylinders 1-4 when I replaced the module the car felt even better then before more power though rev range, a proper kick in the back of the seat type improvement , I think possibly the module was breaking down for a long time giving reduced power. Could this be similar to your cars symptoms. Jim
Keep in mind Chaps that the coils are firing and that it is cylinders 5-8 that have a bad spark timing issue on idle only. In other words the coils are working but not at the right interval on 5-8 and that this issue goes away as the rpm reaches 3000rpm. At 3000rpm all cylinders are firing correctly on 5-8 bank. Kind regards Bell Bloke
Yes true swapping coils is quick and easy The question I'm mulling over at the moment is what controls the spark advance? Answer is the Dinoplex Units. Next question is what faults do they suffer from and is erratic spark at low rpm a known issue, or maybe it's just the connections to the boxes are oxidised.... Regards Bell
You could switch connections from the ECU digiplexes as well, right? As one bank seems OK, if an ECU is playing up, by switching the other bank should start showing the problem. And here a link to a US 'ECU doctor' shop that I saw do repair those, though not cheap: http://www.ecudoctors.com/ferrari-mondial-qv-1982-1985.html
From what I've heard, and experienced, the ignition modules are pretty reliable. The coils, not so much.
Here is my take after extensive detective work on my neighbor's 308 QV...check the AC voltage on the flywheel sensors at idle and at higher RPM. The sensors are basically very small electrical generators and each sensor has a magnet and coil that is triggered when the corresponding element on the flywheel passes by the sensor. Bank 5-8 sensor is the one located at about 10 o'clock on the bell housing...tucked ever so conveniently in an area I am betting is less well ventilated than the lower and rear sensors. Heat is a killer for a permanent magnet in that given enough, the magnet will lose strength and thus generating capacity. Also, if the sensor doesn't fire the Digiplex, then the coil doesnt fire and, presumably, would feel cooler than the one doing all of the work. It may be at low RPM the voltage is low giving you misfires and low power but at higher RPM the sensor generates just enough power to fire the Digiplex normally. Minimum spec is 0.5VAC and his Bank 5-8 was only 0.05VAC. Keep in mind that his were measured on engine cranking and not while running (his B5-8 was DOA). His new sensors now put out 1.2VAC, and that too was measured on starter crank. His episode prompted me to replace both of my sensors while performing the major....MUCH easier to do when distributor caps etc are out of the way than not.
True, to make it even more convenient, you can measure it on the connector, left side next to the intake plenum. First the 700-ish ohms and when turning the AC voltage. Since they used two 4 cylinder units, you can now play with coils and digiplexes. You may open the ignition units and resolder, it is all very solid, but after 30 something years stuff comes loose, cheers braq
Excellent information here Guys, many thanks all the ideas and tech info. I'm obviously hoping that it is coils or better still one of the sensors even though they are new or connections to the sensors. I'm kind of thinking it might be vacuum advance related inside the ECU but who knows. I will start to look at it this weekend and hopefully have a solution.... a cheap solution would be even better ;-) All the best Bell
Checking connectors is a good thing to do...Dave Helms has stated that 90% of issues with the sensors/ignition system were due to connectors. Deoxit is a great thing to have in your toolbox.
I don't expect a vacuum problem or even a coil problem in the first place (but it's always good to check) looking at the video. It looks more like a noisy sync signal from the flywheel sensor as Brock already described. It can be noisy due to AC voltage too low or bad connectors/connections.
Two different animals..WD-40 is more of an oily compound that was developed as a water displacement spray for electrical gear and is why it helps to spray the inside of a wet distributor cap to get your car started...hence the name, WD. DeOxit works more on the corrosion (metal oxides) that have formed over time on the contact mating surfaces (where water is one of the primary culprits promoting oxidation). Yes I have heard that small shots of WD-40 can help but can tell you from experience that it did not provide a long lasting cure on the infamous "low reading tach" problem. DeOxit however has solved that problem. To me, from a pure chemistry standpoint, DeOxit is the way to go on connectors because corrosion is the problem, not dampness.
Hey Brock I'm just pulling yor leg about WD40 vs DeOxit....re the heated discussion in another thread, very funny ;-) Regarding the connector issue, I take great heart in the fact that it might be that, lets hope so, because we've not been out it Kato for over a week now :-( Why is Kato called Kato? Well all the Italian cars are called name that ends in 'O' kind of sounds a bit Italian we thought. Lamborghini Countach - called Valentino after the test driver who I promised to him that I'd name my car after him. Fiat X19 is called Otto Ducatti is called Mario Ferrari Mondial 3.2 is called Cavello (horse) And then there is Kato the 3.0 Mondial. The Lotus Excel SE is called 'Claws' due to his increadible road holding/grip a car that has so much grip it feels like you could climb trees with it, and finally the Lotus V8 was called Andretti for obvious reasons. ;-) Note that they are all boys names, I feel that they all have very 'male' personalities in my head at least.......they are all a bit hooiganish in nature..... All the best Bell.
I could use some humor, which thread are you referring to? My guess is that connectors are the issue if you indeed have changed the sensors out recently. Good luck!
Hi Brock, it was this thread - https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/527700-3-2-coupe-losing-power-dash-intermittently.html Got chemical analysis, the lot.....I know know how to distil my own WD40 out of 3 in 1 oil, bloody posh! ;-)
