A=North Amer, B=Europe, what is S? | FerrariChat

A=North Amer, B=Europe, what is S?

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by James in Denver, Jan 23, 2017.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. James in Denver

    James in Denver Formula 3

    May 23, 2006
    2,136
    Centennial Colorado
    Full Name:
    James in Denver
    There is a Mondial on Ebay (will post link later, not at home) that has an S in the VIN. I know A=North American production delivery, B=European delivery, but what is S?

    Just curious.

    James
     
  2. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
  3. James in Denver

    James in Denver Formula 3

    May 23, 2006
    2,136
    Centennial Colorado
    Full Name:
    James in Denver
  4. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #4 Wade, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Interesting. Engine-out service in Oct 2016 and this is comforting; "All vehicles sold to the United States will be shipped from Champlain, NY and will be delivered with a US title."

    Still running metric wheels and tires which is okay to me if they're relatively new.

    A bit tattered around the ends too... I would take a nice weekender to Montreal for an eyes-on if truly interested. Make sure everything works and the top is without tears or damage. It appears to have been repainted as well.
    .
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #5 Wade, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. TGIF

    TGIF Karting

    Mar 7, 2016
    86
    Milpitas, CA
    Full Name:
    Paully
    The Swiss/Euro Cars have the different turn signal marker lights then the US as well as not have the "bumb" squares in the front fender. The rear should have "fog lights" which will be red marker lights above and to the corner for the exhaust as well.

    I saw this auction when it went up and snagged some pics to reference with by "B" euro version I have.
     
  7. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    The Swiss cars also have lower ratio differential gearing, which works very well with the torque of these engines. Might also have the higher pressure ke jetronic fuel injection, which improved emissions, and it would have a US style cat.
     
  8. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2012
    6,450
    street,md
    Full Name:
    fred brown
    My car is a Swiss version. Occasionally when looking up parts it will mention CH which is the Swiss car. Nicest thing about it is no cats, smog pump, lambda, nothing. Very simple in every way.
     
  9. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    My understanding is the Swiss cars adopted more stringent emission standards, and they would have the single pipe entry cat, the lambda, the KE jetronic. Mine is a 1988, so maybe the earlier models were more like the Euro models of the day which would have the no cat, etc. as noted.

    The Swiss cars also have more sound deadening foam insulation throughout, as there was a unique noise standard for that market.
     
  10. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    The engine with cat and KE-3 (255hp) appeared on Swiss cars from mid 1987 onwards. Before That, they were identical to the standard euro, non cat (270hp).
    Rgds
     
  11. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 22, 2006
    2,232
    Belgium - Europe
    B was also used on cars for Switserland, I have 2 cars from Switserland that were originally delivered there, with a B on the chassis#.
     
  12. enzo52

    enzo52 Karting

    Aug 14, 2008
    131
    France, Paris
    Full Name:
    Depensadie Seraphin
    There is this official note :

    A : LHD USA
    B : LHD Europe
    C : RHD Great Britain
    D : RHD Australia
    J : LHD Japan

    The next digit is : check digit USA with A : Japan O : Others

    The next digit is : Model Year P : Japan O : Others

    So probably for 3.2 and t there are other digits used.

    Enzo52
     
  13. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    It can depend on a range of years. What years are yours?

    For the timeframe that the OP is talking about, B is for Left-Hand Drive, Europe.

    And S is Left-Hand Drive, Switzerland/Sweden, used between approx. 1980 and 1995.

    Or so it says from the decoder that I use. ;)
     
  14. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    It Is not the "right" way to present the state of things...
    "B" means "European, non catalysed engine", which is the cars That all european countries received until 1987, including Switzerland.
    In 1987, Switzerland was the first country in Europe to implement a législation on émissions That made a catalysed engine mandatory for Ferraris to pass, so came the "C" engine with KE-3 jet and cat.
    Before 1987, Europe and switzerland cars has non cat engine ("B") so There was no specific engine for Switzerland.
    After 1987, the 'C" engine (KE-3 + cat) was specific to swiss models (later also sold in Sweden).
    Rgds
     
  15. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2012
    6,450
    street,md
    Full Name:
    fred brown
    my head hurts
     
  16. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    Is the KE 3 fuel injection an improved system with benefits other than emissions? Was this on other Ferrari models? When did KE 3 get replaced by something newer? Just curious, it seems Ferrari went to alot of trouble for the Swiss market.
     
  17. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    #17 nerofer, Jan 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
    No reason to:

    Type of engine fitted by the factory is the fourth position in the VIN; designated original market is the eight position in the VIN.

    The engines were basically of three different types (that you could identify by the fourth letter in the VIN)

    For the 3,2 engines:
    "W": non catalysed engine, for all european spec cars, (270hp) (the #8 character the VIN is the market: "B" meaning "for Europe", "C" for UK so RHD; "S" for Switzerland)
    "X": catalysed engine, for North America and Australia, (260 hp)
    "C": a specific variant of the catalysed engine, with Bosch KE-3 jet, specific to Switzerland from mid 1987, and some other Countries after that as well: mainly Sweden, but also Austria, etc...(255hp). As this engine was specific to Switzerland, and has also a different gearbox, the #8 position in the VIN was "S" meaning "Switzerland".

    As for Switzerland, it received:
    - "standard euro" cars, so with the non-cat "W" engine in position 4 and "B" in position 8, this until mid 1987; but some of the cars sold new in Switzerland might have "W" in position 4 but "S" in position 8 if they had specific characteristic for Switzerland, mainly a gearbox with different ratio, which, I think, was the case of 308QVs and "Mondials" (maybe) but not of 328s sold new in Switzerland, which were of the standard euro type until mid 1987.
    - from mid 1987 onwards, a specific variant for Switzerland, with a 255hp catalysed engine, so "C" in position 4 for the catalysed engine and "S" in position 8 for "Switzerland". That variant was sold in Sweden as well, absolutely identical in everyway to the cars sold in Switzerland but with two small water outlets in front of each headlight pods for headlight washers.

    Easy, no?

    Rgds

    The modification of sound-proofing of the exhaust did not warrant a change anywhere in the VIN: for instance, Germany received the standard "euro" model of the 328 (VINs are ZFFWA19B0000xxxxx if a GTB, ZFFWA20B0000xxxxx if a GTS) but with a different exhaust (with a different part reference in the parts catalogue) because their norms for sound acceptance were more stringent than the rest of Europe; the VIN was not modified.
     
  18. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    That market was very important to them: in the mid eighties, North America accounted for 28 to 30% of production; Italy 22/23, then Germany, UK, France and Switzerland each at about 8 to 10%.
    Furthermore, they knew that Switzerland (an european country, but not a member of the EU) was only anticipating in 1987 the emissions laws that would later be implemented in the rest of Europe (in 1992).

    So they tested in Switzerland the engine configuration that they would later sell in the rest of Europe. The swiss version of the 328, "C" engine with catalytic converter, available in Switzerland from mid 1987, was also sold in Germany during the last year of production (1989) along the standard "non cat" variant, because even if the emission legislation was not fully implemented there yet, the catalytic converter already gave you a bonus on taxes ("green patch").
    All Ferraris with V8 engines sold new in Europe from 1990 onwards had catalytic converters; except for a small number, I believe only forty - 40 - cars, "Mondial T" from the first production batch that were not fitted with cats yet, so are slightly more powerful.

    The Swiss market was a precursor, a "test bed"...

    Rgds
     
  19. TGIF

    TGIF Karting

    Mar 7, 2016
    86
    Milpitas, CA
    Full Name:
    Paully
    Great info, thanks
     
  20. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    To be just a little more specific, for the 3,2 engine:
    - Euro variant, 270hp, no cat: ("W" in position 4 in the car's VIN) has K-Jet with WUR, but no catalysator so no lambda probe; the top of the fuel distributor is silver; there is no frequency valve or pressure accumulator to be seen at left of the fuel distributor.
    - US variant, 260hp, catalysator ("X" in position 4 in the car's VIN) has K-Jet with WUR, catalysator, lambda probe, top of the fuel distributor is black, there is a frequency valve (horizontal if I'm not getting confused) at left of the fuel distributor.
    - Swiss variant, 255hp, catalysator ("C" in position 4 of the VIN) has KE-3 Jet without WUR, catalysator, lambda probe, top of fuel distributor silver, frequency valve/pressure accumulator in the reverse position than on the US variant (so vertical if I'm not mixing the two) at left of the fuel distributor.

    The principles and workings of the KE-3 Jet is described in much details in the factory booklet "Bosch KE-3 Jetronic", print number 539-89.

    Rgds
     
  21. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    Thank you, great information, never seen it characterized on Fchat like this before. Odd that a higher pressure injection system would reduce power.
     
  22. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    11,968
    FRANCE
    To be fair and give crédit to where crédit is due: Much of the information comes from F-Chat stalwarts Brian Crall (= Rifledriver) and Steve Magnusson.

    Rgds
     

Share This Page