Engine Out Car Lift Question | FerrariChat

Engine Out Car Lift Question

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by sidtx, May 21, 2017.

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  1. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Feb 9, 2014
    4,454
    Frisco, Tx
    Full Name:
    Sid
    Hello All

    Car show season is ending here in Texas as it's getting too hot. It'll pick up again in the fall.

    So, this is a good time for some servicing of the old girl (85 QV Coupe).

    I'm considering doing an engine out major service, plus cleanup of the engine and engine bay. I've researched the procedure, read the service manual, and I don't think this is an unreasonable job to undertake. Plus, I have the advantage of having an ASE certified mechanic on hand (my adult son).


    My question is - how high must the car be lifted to clear the engine and subframe?

    I have a 4 post lift, but that won't work for this. I'm looking into purchasing a scissor lift, or even something like the "quick-jack portable lift". The quick-jack only has a 22" lift, so I'm not sure that will work. Mid-Rise scissor lifts will lift the car up to 48 inches.

    Anyone have any measurements on how high they had to lift their car?

    Thanks

    Sid
     
  2. StuR

    StuR Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2005
    561
    UK Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Stu R
    Did, sorry not written down but it's the top of the suspension turrets to bottom of wheel hubs, plus whatever height you need for trolley - see attached pics.

    I stripped plenum and few bits to reduce height. Challenge was the angle, but I had a sloping drive that helped. Looks steeper than it was.

    I dropped exhaust system to gain some mm, easy enough and I wanted to do some work with it anyway.



    Look forward to service update and pics. Good luck.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]


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  3. Indyjones

    Indyjones Karting

    Jan 28, 2009
    219
    Pacific NW

    First warm weekend this year in western Canada ;) Car show season has not even begun...please send some heat up north if you can spare some.
     
  4. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    The factory engine stand sits pretty high. I made a cheap one that sits lower out of 2x4s and small steel wheels. If you want, I can find the dimensions for you.

    Take the wheels off, then lower the car down to the stand. This will reduce the height you have to lift the car up over the engine. I don't have to take any parts off the engine first. I use 2 small hydraulic jacks on either side like these.

    Sears.com

    So after you disconnect everything, use your floor jack to get the car up to the height of the hydraulic jacks. Then the hydraulic jacks with blocks of wood will lift the car high enough to roll the engine assembly out.

    IIRC, the nut on the shift fork rod has reverse threads. Measure the length of threads on that, and the handbrake cable before you take them apart.

    It's easy to damage the forward bank's air injection manifold on reassembly, so be careful with that. Go slow when jacking the car up and down over the engine. The manual is quite detailed. Follow each step.
     
  5. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Veteran
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    Apr 29, 2012
    6,450
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    fred brown
    #5 srephwed, May 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If you have the room the best money you can spend is to buy a two post lift.I use it for many other things than working on a car. I made the stand with rollers to allow it to be put off to the side. I was a winter project so to free the lift I built a small set of wheels that allowed the car to be rolled back in it's garage. It worked very well. I was very proud how it turned out. As us hillbillies say it was purrdy!
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  6. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    It can be done on a drive on lift. I did it once. Factory manual mentions it I believe. It isn't ideal but can be made to work.
     
  7. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
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    The Meister
    there was a thread in the 348/355 section on how to do this with 4 post lift. They did it with either 348/355, front wheels strapped to the ramps/decks, car hanging off the end just enough to clear the sub frame.

    max jax would be a good option too
     
  8. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
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    Feb 9, 2014
    4,454
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    Sid
    I may just build a frame out of 4x4's or 4x8's under the Mondial, then use the 4 post lift to lift the Mondial off the ground. Place the Mondial under the 4post lift rails, strap the rails to the frame under the mondial, and then lift. I've done this when separating a Karmann Ghia body from it's pan. However, that was less than 1500lbs, whereas the Mondial weighs over 3000. Who knows, maybe I'll qualify for the Darwin Awards?

    I sort of wanted to purchase a "Quick-Jack", but it only has a 22" max lift height. I don't think that will do it.

    The Max Jax has to be bolted to the foundation. I don't want to do that

    Sid
     
  9. StuR

    StuR Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2005
    561
    UK Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Stu R
    S[​IMG]

    Sid, putting (fastening) the front wheels on a low ramp obviously raises the angle to which the rear has to be raised. It is not as Darwin Award as it sounds (or my first two pics look).

    I also had adjustable wheel stands that bolted on ASAP so that the car want in the position for long, and could be manoeuvred easily afterwards - see attached pic.

    Workshop / space prep is the key. I didn't have space for a lift, and was easily able to shift the engine etc on a pallet truck and then use an engine lift to get the engine onto a stand as required during tear-down. Having the lump low to get the heads off was no bad thing!!!!




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  10. StuR

    StuR Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2005
    561
    UK Buckinghamshire
    Full Name:
    Stu R
    [​IMG]

    Sorry, better picture of (rear) wheeled chassis legs. (For 'car' not engine cradle).


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  11. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    That's a lot of work.

    I used the same bottle jacks as shown in the 355 thread holding the chassis up (I did it from the shop floor with no lift). 13" lift for $20 each. It worked. If you're afraid the car will fall off the jacks, just puts some blocks under the frame for safety.
     
  12. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
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    Feb 9, 2014
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    If so, the quick-jack would work great!!!

    I'm looking for an excuse to purchase one.

    Sid
     
  13. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    3,859
    #14 spicedriver, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
    Quick-jack would probably work. The only difference is that it's level. The bottle jacks form a fulcrum, that cantilevers the rear end up higher. 2 big floor jacks would probably work as well.

    I took some measurements - the power unit is 29" from the plenum to the bottom of the frame. The engine stand I made is 5 1/2" high. So the total height I needed was 34 1/2". The rear bumper is the lowest point. Measure that to the ground, and subtract from the 34 1/2", and that's how much lift you will need.

    Engine stand - Qty. 8 - 2" diameter steel wheels. 2x4s - 2 @ 25 1/2, 2 @ 24 1/2, 2 @ 18 1/2. The width of the frame around the engine at the bottom is 24 1/2".
     
  14. caterus

    caterus Karting

    Dec 24, 2010
    60
    Oxfordshire, UK
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I'm impressed by the different ways FChat members have used to drop the engine. I wanted a way that I could use by myself in a relatively confined space and decided that a two post lift was the safest and easiest way available. The headroom in my garage was 8 ft 6" and a lift that just fitted allowed me to raise the Mondial a maximum of 4 ft. This was sufficient but not overly generous and much less than this would have made it more difficult to work around and under the engine and moving the engine/subframe around once it was lowered.

    I have no doubt that using a two-post lift made life much easier and was well worth the investment. Dropping the engine and fixing all the little issues which a 30 year old car will inevitably have was a real challenge and took longer than I anticipated but was very worth while.

    One real problem I faced, which is rarely mentioned, was getting the engine and subframe back into the car. This requires accurate alignment of the subframe mounting locations with those of the car as the car is lowered or subframe raised. Even taking great care neither the car on its lift or the subframe on its cradle is likely to be precisely both horizontal and perpendicular to the floor. If I did it all again I would make a strong engine cradle with angles properly aligned and ideally adjustable and persuade someone to assist when I moved the subframe into place.

    My overall conclusion? Dropping the engine/subframe is possible for an individual to tackle and is a really worthwhile and satisfying task. But I personally would want to use a robust lift capable of lifting the car at least 40".
     
  15. stekkefun4

    stekkefun4 Formula 3
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    Nov 22, 2006
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    #16 stekkefun4, Jun 5, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Nov 1, 2005
    3,628
    Canada
    What is the make and model of that trolly? Looks like a perfect width and low clearance for doing this.
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I used my 4 post lift to drop engines off 355, 348, Porsche 997 Twin Turbo, Porsche 996 and about to drop the engine off a 348T this weekend. It is all doable.
     

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