Help me understand

Panigale is more comfortable than previous Ducati superbikes, and as fast as anything you are likely to own. The R model of that bike is $30k retail, but the base model is under $20k ($18k w/o ABS).

It has normal oil change intervals like every other bike, and the big service is at 15k miles where the bike is about half-disassembled to adjust the valves. Not a cheap or quick service, well north of $1000.

The 1199 is really the first Ducati superbike that removes most of the reasons non-Ducatisti haven't bought the brand in the past. With a Busa or R1 pushing $15k new, three grand more isn't that much more in the grand scheme of things.

You've bought 10 bikes in the past 30 months if I read your post correctly. Go try a Panigale and see if it is the kind of bike you are expecting. Or maybe a Diavel if you like Harleys. Revised Diavel was just announced with LED headlights and some other improvements.

The 1098 and previous superbikes were ergonomically challenging at times, although my 999 was comfortable to me.

 

For some people, displays of wealth are a big deal, for lots of different reasons. Also they believe there is some cachet to the name.

For me, I find it harder to understand people who constantly change cars or in this case bikes. Why? Don't you know what you like? Buy waht you like and keep it is my philosophy.

 

Ah got it.

 

The same reason that people will buy an expensive Ferrari that will not outperform a car that cost much less.

 

...as a former Ducati, Triumph and Yamaha Dealer, the Ducati's are the best track bikes out there, street bike?

Not so much.

The street bikes pay for the racing programme.

 

Although not a track weapon, I have a 2007 SportClassic and love it

 

When I got into Ducatis I was riding a Honda Shadow and I wanted a sport bike. I went to Mid Ohio for the AMA Superbike weekend and I heard a noise that I can only describe as angry, VERY angry. It was a sharp contrast to the screaming 4cyl bikes. I had seen them in showrooms but never really heard one at full whack.

I had 96 900 SS SP that I totaled and in 2002 I bought a 1999 748. That was the package that I was looking for. My neighbor just got one of the first 02 R1s delivered and while it had way more power it just felt fat. The tank was wide and I felt like I was sitting on top of it instead of being a part of it.

I also tend to gravitate to stuff that you don't see everyday. I never went to a group ride or bike night that wasn't a Ducati event and saw another 748.
For me it was worth a premium in maintenance costs for that. I paid several thousand less for mine than the R1 was to buy. Now if you want to own a bike you don't need to tinker with and never breaks down but you see literally hundreds of them out on a Saturday then a Duc is not for you.

 

I get that. 99% of the people on a liter bike can't get the performance out of them. There were 4 of us that would pit together at track days and do fast back roads. I was second fastest in a group of 2 R1s and a GSXR 1000 that were all brand new. Fast really doesn't have a lot to do with the bike in most cases. The one guy that was quicker than me did better lap times on my bike because the chassis was better and you didn't have to worry as much about spinning up the rear. Anyone can buy a bunch of HP and go fast in a straight line.

You are looking for justification on a dyno sheet and you won't find it. You can mod the daylights out of a Corvette ZR1 and have more HP than a 458 but wouldn't you rather have the Ferrari? If you are truly looking at performance what's with the HD's? They don't accelerate, brake or turn well.

It's ok, if you don't get it then don't get one. The Japanese offerings are great bikes too. They just aren't Ducatis.

 

My ST3sABS has bar riser castings, so my back is ok after long rides,,

ST4 motor was hotter, but I got a great deal on the ST3.

 

Are you sure? I saw two Harleys and an air-cooled Buell on your list...

 

The sound and torque of the V-twin, the narrow frame & tank, the handling, the style...
As you point out, it's not really for the performance. They're quick, but rarely the top of the heap quick.

You either get it or you don't, don't lose sleep over it.

 

When you've won an AMA national roadrace you can put yourself into the fast category, not until. If you are fast, there isn't much difference between the bikes. They just have to be ridden differently. My Bevel Drive ducati, back in the 70s wasn't anywhere near as quick as the four cylinders, but you could get into the corners harder, could corner faster, and get on the gas sooner, and because it was narrower, had a higher top speed, although it took longer to get there. I suspect the new versions of these bikes are similar.

Art

 

I have no delusions that I was fast. I wasn't, the point was there is a very small percentage of people that can use liter bike performance. Put the average rider on a 500, 600, 750 or 1000 and lap times will all look similar because the person can only go around a specific turn so fast regardless of how fast the bike could go around that turn.

I don't see in my previous post where I said I was fast in the grand scheme of things.

 

I rode a Soft Tail Duece around for a day and it was fun for a while. Like a 600lb party favor it made great noise but the brakes were awful.

How do you like your Busa? I've thought about one for a crazy quick touring bike?
Any issues that crop up regularly?

 

Same reason people spend $300k on a Ferrari instead of $100k on a zr1.

 

I would like to add my two cents to this topic :

If you are a person who always take rational decisions, please do us a favor : do not buy a Ducati. Because you will surely have something negative to say about it.
Ducatis are made with passion for passionate people.

I am a proud owner of 3 Ducatis because this company was always very (may be too much after all) involved in racing and I hold in very high esteem persons and motorcycle companies who go racing. The Ducati company was so racing oriented that it nearly went bankruptcy at least two times (first time before the Italian government takeover in the '70 and second time before the Cagiva takeover in 1985).

In 1985, the Ducati factory produced something like 1928 bikes. I am very proud to own one of them. In 1985, Ducatis 750F1 came to America with "not for street use" stickers. You must be passionate to own a street bike that you are not allowed to use on the street ( track use only). I have spent more than $ 21 000 on it and I have no regrets. Of the five bikes I own, this is the one I love the most !

Yes Ducatis do not come cheap and they need more loving care than other motorcycles. Ducatis may not be the fastest bikes or the most comfortable. But two things are for sure : with a Ducati, you can take any corner with confidence and the stopping power compares with the best bikes on the market. Two qualities that will keep you alive in situations where other bikes may fail to do the same.

But, above all those considerations, Ducatis are made for passionate people !

 

A couple more pennies from me, people like what they like. But there are some realities to be thrown in the mix. As for racing, SBK has no dominant winning manufacturer (current times) , while AMA Superbike has been a japanese show with Yamaha dominating lately and Suzuki before that.
Yamaha has dominated the race I care most for, The Isle of Man TT -- Machine Analysis - The official Isle of Man TT website . So for any recent times it's tough to say Ducati is the racing brand.

I think most would agree that the jap bikes are superior in quality. I looked at this category for quite a while. I don't like 2 cylinder bikes. I tested the BMW S1000 but the ride quality was not there. So I bought the best looking bike in the bunch, the R1. It sounds awesome too.

 

I disagree on two things... Japs superior quality, and all the above worthing two pennies.

 

Results are results. Disagreeing with reality is your problem.

 

Generally speaking I think the Japanese literbikes can tolerate abuse and general owner neglect better than Ducati superbikes. If that is the definition of quality then I would agree.

With that said, all bikes to some degree are built to a price point. In my observation the Japanese bikes are built to a lower price point. Cheap imitation carbon fiber stickers or nasty, poor quality paint work and decal applications not being uncommon at all. Suspension and brakes can perform well against contemporaries, but you can feel the penny-pinching when comparing it to a top level Ducati superbike. For example, nearly everything on the 999 was built specifically for that bike. Even little things like the brake and clutch fluid reserviors were scultped to be part of the whole bike and were bespoke to the 749/999.

With the 1098, Ducati worried more about the costs. In 2012 the 1199 Panigale restored them as being able to build some of the horniest bikes available. The 899 Panigale has slid back a bit toward cheaper feel through compared to the 1199. There is only $3k difference in price between the two but it seems like more, nearly everything has been downgraded a step to save a few bucks in production cost.

 

If it has to be explained likely you'll never get it..