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  #281  
Old 01-11-2011, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Zack View Post
Newton, huh? I used to go there for ice cream when I went to Grinnell. Small world. Enjoy your car--it looks stunnung!
Q: Where the hell is Grinnell?!
A: Who the hell cares?

What year did you graduate?
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  #282  
Old 01-11-2011, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sandy Eggo View Post
Q: Where the hell is Grinnell?!
A: Who the hell cares?

What year did you graduate?
You be nice to those of us who occupy the middle of our country. Somebody has to do it (I am not sure why, but we do) so that you can live you highly stylized west coast life .........Steve
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  #283  
Old 01-11-2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by needspeed View Post
You be nice to those of us who occupy the middle of our country. Somebody has to do it (I am not sure why, but we do) so that you can live you highly stylized west coast life .........Steve
That Q/A was and still is the #1 selling Tshirt at the Grinnell college bookstore.

I am fully qualified to rag on Iowa having been raised there and went to Grinnell before my "escape". Lol.
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  #284  
Old 01-11-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sandy Eggo View Post
...I am fully qualified to rag on Iowa having been raised there and went to Grinnell before my "escape". Lol.
I feel exactly the same justification --- although for Iowa and the University of Iowa, in my case. As soon as I realized I was allowed to leave......smoke and flames shot from the soles of my shoes as I left
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  #286  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:23 PM
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Are you talking about a Ferrari 246, or some other Italian car with the "Dino" name?
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  #287  
Old 01-24-2011, 02:54 PM
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Ferrari built four models under the Dino name, all but the 308 used the same Formula 2 V6 engine which also made its way into the Lancia Stratos. Because at first Ferrari dealers in the US didn't want to sell Dinos they were sold under as Fiats even though the cars were built at Ferrari and when the 206/246 started production they were assembled side by side.

1966–1973 2.4 Bertone Coupe
1966–1973 2.4 Pininfarina Spider
1968–1976 206/246 GT & GTS
1973–1976 308 GT4 2+2
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  #288  
Old 01-24-2011, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
Ferrari built four models under the Dino name, all but the 308 used the same Formula 2 V6 engine which also made its way into the Lancia Stratos. Because at first Ferrari dealers in the US didn't want to sell Dinos they were sold under as Fiats even though the cars were built at Ferrari and when the 206/246 started production they were assembled side by side.

1966–1973 2.4 Bertone Coupe
1966–1973 2.4 Pininfarina Spider
1968–1976 206/246 GT & GTS
1973–1976 308 GT4 2+2
Ooooookay!? Sooooo, which do you have???
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  #290  
Old 01-24-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
Thought it was obvious but the 2.4 Bertone Coupe
OK, I'll blame it on the drugs
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  #291  
Old 01-26-2011, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
Ferrari built four models under the Dino name, all but the 308 used the same Formula 2 V6 engine which also made its way into the Lancia Stratos. Because at first Ferrari dealers in the US didn't want to sell Dinos they were sold under as Fiats even though the cars were built at Ferrari and when the 206/246 started production they were assembled side by side.

1966–1973 2.4 Bertone Coupe
1966–1973 2.4 Pininfarina Spider
1968–1976 206/246 GT & GTS
That's not quite accurate. Fiat built the engines (which were essentially the same --- though the 206 had a smaller, 2.0 liter, version) for all the above cars --- whether Ferrari (not yet completely its own entity) or Fiat actually designed the engines is still a subject of historical debate. The 206/246 chassis were Ferrari designed and built, while the 2.4 Coupe / Spider were Fiat through and through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
1973–1976 308 GT4 2+2
That's not quite accurate. The 308 GT4 had an all new 3.0 liter V8 engine, which was ALL Ferrari --- though the "initial concept layout" for that engine was penned by an Engineer at Fiat (who later defected to Lancia, who also built their own version of the design). The 308 chassis was also an entirely Ferrari affair.

The lines between Fiat and Ferrari have often been blurry at times ---- and many Engineers and management staff were rather incestuous among Alfa Romeo / Fiat / Lancia / Ferrari. But, I've not read any historians' accounts where the 2.4 Coupe / Spider is ascribed to having anything other than Fiat involvement ---- engine and chassis.

The reason the 206/246 were all badged as "Dino"'s was because of the Fiat-built engines. But, the 308GT4 was originally badged as a "Dino" purely as an honorary tribute to Enzo's son (who was nicknamed "Dino") ---- not because of any connection to Fiat. And, during the last 1 1/2 years (approximately) of production, all the 308GT4's left the (Ferrari) factory with full Ferrari badging, including nose cloisonne ---- no Dino badges.

Last edited by finnerty; 01-26-2011 at 08:02 PM.
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  #292  
Old 01-26-2011, 10:21 PM
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I have ridden in a Panoz AVI in the western Des Moines suburbs. I won't post his name to respect his privacy.
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  #293  
Old 01-26-2011, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnerty View Post
That's not quite accurate. Fiat built the engines (which were essentially the same --- though the 206 had a smaller, 2.0 liter, version) for all the above cars --- whether Ferrari (not yet completely its own entity) or Fiat actually designed the engines is still a subject of historical debate. The 206/246 chassis were Ferrari designed and built, while the 2.4 Coupe / Spider were Fiat through and through.
First of all Fiat is not a dirty term, if it were not for them Ferraris would not exist.

Alfredo Ferrari had the idea for the V6 engine to put into Ferraris Formula 2 cars. In order to use them for the race they would need to produce a line of street cars that used that engine and the intention originally was to brand all V6 cars as "Dino" after Alfredino's death to honor him. The task of creating the engine was given to famed Ferrari engine designer Aurelio Lampredi. Ferrari would not be able to meet the expected demand for the engines so Fiat had the job of manufacturing them in Turin. It was only because of the US dealers that the cars ever got a designation of Fiat or Ferrari.

Ferrari was not in the business of designing cars. Pininfarina designed both the Fiat Dino Spider and Ferrari Dino. The coupe however was designed by Bertone the same design house that later designed the 308 GT4. At first the Fiat Dinos used a 2.0L version of the V6 and were being assembled at Fiats plant.

Once the 2.4L version of the V6 was developed all of Fiat Dino Spiders, Fiat Dino Coupes, and Ferrari Dino 246s were assembled at Ferrari at Maranello. All of the cars were assembled by the same Ferrari engineers on the same Ferrari production lines which makes the Fiat Dinos just as much Ferrari as the 246 and are much rarer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnerty View Post
That's not quite accurate. The 308 GT4 had an all new 3.0 liter V8 engine, which was ALL Ferrari
I realize the 308 GT4 is a completely different car, I was just listing all of the cars that had been produced under the Dino badge.
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  #294  
Old 01-27-2011, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
First of all Fiat is not a dirty term, if it were not for them Ferraris would not exist...
That is true today because of the Fiat financial support needed in the 60's/70's/80's. But long before that, Enzo himself, the cars, the Engineers, and the designs took their roots from Alfa Romeo and Lancia (even Abarth) --- but not Fiat. So, it depends upon one's perspective.

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Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
....which makes the Fiat Dinos just as much Ferrari as the 246....
That is a matter of both subjective interpretation and taste ---- the vast majority of automotive historians and collectors do not share that point of view. Otherwise, the desirability and market values of the cars would reflect such.

BTW, in order to manage production growth, several Ferrari models of the 80's & 90's (before Ferrari's own infrastructure expansion) were actually assembled, in whole or in part, on Fiat's production lines in Fiat's facilities ------ Does that make them "Fiat's" ???
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  #295  
Old 01-27-2011, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by finnerty View Post
That is a matter of both subjective interpretation and taste ---- the vast majority of automotive historians and collectors do not share that point of view. Otherwise, the desirability and market values of the cars would reflect such.
I would argue that the values reflect that most people have never heard of them and that they will have their time. Also most Ferrari buyers choose a Ferrari because they want everyone to know they are driving a Ferrari and will probably never set a tire on a track.

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Originally Posted by finnerty View Post
Does that make them "Fiat's" ???
You are really being ridiculous, I am not arguing to call the Fiat Dino a Ferrari and they definitely should never have a Scuderia Ferrari on the fender as some owners do to their Spyders. However I would argue that a Dino is a Dino, Ferrari was at first uncomfortable with the idea of a non-V12 car and after a few years of consideration they were able to evolve from Fiat to Dino to Ferraris.
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  #296  
Old 02-15-2011, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
...You are really being ridiculous....
I would suggest that it is ridiculous for you to allude that the 'Fiat Dino 2.4' is an exotic car in the first place. Just because a (sports) car is European, older, or even scarce in number built / surviving, does not make it an exotic (nor necessarily even special). And, trying to "pump it up" by inferring that is strongly tied to any Ferrari, seems a bit pretentious to me.

The automotive world has universally accepted that the 206 & 246 GT/GTS "Dino" are true Ferrari's --- but that doesn't grandfather any other cars in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassTheSpanner View Post
...most Ferrari buyers choose a Ferrari because they want everyone to know they are driving a Ferrari and will probably never set a tire on a track....
That's quite a sweeping (and wildly arrogant) generalization to make. You may want to actually meet some Ferrari owners before you decide to pass such a judgment. I've met hundreds over the years, and I can count the number who fit your description on one hand. True, there are many who don't track their cars, but it is not because they only care about having the car as a status symbol ---- it is because of their concerns over accidentally damaging it.

Last edited by finnerty; 02-15-2011 at 01:09 AM.
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  #297  
Old 02-15-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnerty View Post
Just because a (sports) car is European, older, or even scarce in number built / surviving, does not make it an exotic (nor necessarily even special).
Tell that to the people that take a Fiat Jolly to Concorso! Wooohooo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by finnerty View Post
That's quite a sweeping (and wildly arrogant) generalization to make. You may want to actually meet some Ferrari owners before you decide to pass such a judgment. I've met hundreds over the years, and I can count the number who fit your description on one hand. True, there are many who don't track their cars, but it is not because they only care about having the car as a status symbol ---- it is because of their concerns over accidentally damaging it.
Hmm, not that it's wise for me to get in this odd squabble you two have going on right now, I'd agree with Spanner. "Actually meet some Ferrari owners" coming off the heels of calling HIM arrogant is, well......

Besides that, even being only 31 I've met a good number of owners as well, and the VAST majority of them have no intention of tracking the car, and it has nothing at all to do with "fear of damaging it". It IS a status symbol. This is applicable to Porsche, Maserati, and Lamborghini, but this seems to play in to the stereotype of the holier than thou attitude that Ferrari owners are somehow better because they buy theirs for a purpose unrelated to the perceptions of fellow humans. But, rest easy, we now think you're cool since you've met so many owners.
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  #298  
Old 02-15-2011, 08:07 PM
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I was traveling through Iowa this summer. A guy here in Texas told me about a TR setting in the weeds in Delta, Iowa. Sure enough, it was there. Looked a bit derelict with some other old cars nearby. Unique (unusual/strange) place. That is all I know.

Anyone know anything about it?

I sincerely apologize to the owner if this becomes a nuisance.

DRG
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"Any compromise is better than a successful lawsuit." Enzo Levi (Ferrari's lawyer)
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  #299  
Old 02-16-2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by deeprivergarage View Post
I was traveling through Iowa this summer. A guy here in Texas told me about a TR setting in the weeds in Delta, Iowa. Sure enough, it was there. Looked a bit derelict with some other old cars nearby. Unique (unusual/strange) place. That is all I know.

Anyone know anything about it?

I sincerely apologize to the owner if this becomes a nuisance.

DRG
Hmm, maybe those "American Picker" guys can go get it. Probably some strange person that has a number in their head of what it's worth (which of course it's not).
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  #300  
Old 02-16-2011, 09:08 PM
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360 for sale at Toyota of DM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUPER...item19c33811a7
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