Thomassima II of Tom Meade | FerrariChat

Thomassima II of Tom Meade

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by Scuderia CC, Apr 29, 2004.

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  1. Scuderia CC

    Scuderia CC Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    511
    France
    Full Name:
    Christophe
  2. krasnavian

    krasnavian Formula 3

    Dec 24, 2003
    2,187
    Los Angeles/Paris
    It has been some years since I've talked to him, but perhaps I can put you in touch with Tom. I spent a bit of time with him in Italy and in California when he was living in Costa Mesa. The night I met him, a mutual friend took me to Tom's place under the pretext of having me assess the value of a Ferrari that had been listed for sale in the Los Angeles Times. They pretended not to know each other and led me to the garage where the car in question was cloaked and hidden from view. Off came the cover revealing the Thomassima II, an amazing piece of automotive sculpture. There was a moment of silence as it dawned on me that this had not, in fact, been listed for sale in the Times classified and that I'd been 'had' in a delightful manner.

    I've always been in awe of what Tom accomplished as an artist whose automotive canvass was both aesthetic and practical. On one occasion, I accompanied Tom to Dan Gurney's installation in southern California. Tom's quest was to obtain one or more of the Gurney-Weslake V-12 engines to serve as the heart and soul of his next creation. Would that it had happened!

    Of equal importance, Tom introduced me to Milano as it is in September when the models of the world converge there for catalogue work. I haven't been the same since...
     
  3. Scuderia CC

    Scuderia CC Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    511
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    Christophe
    Such a beauty that Ferrari 330 P4 can only have the spirits and allows the inspiration to the creators and I imagine well that when you discovered it silence is essential and time is only with the contemplation and nothing others, it is really a very beautiful realization!!!!
     
  4. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
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    Paul S.
    French.
    If you want to get in touch with Tom Meade, send a PM to 'NickandCindy' or easier still email Nick Mrozinski at: [email protected]. Nick has recently been talking with Tom, who now lives in Beverly Hills, and has his phone number. Unfortunately Tom is a bit of a 'technophobe' so no email address.
    Nick has been telling me about some of Tom's interesting recollections of his times in Modena with David Piper ..... (this quote taken previous URL reference)
    "David Piper and I used to rent a workshop together where he used to work on his cars between the continental races. Quite often the late Mike Parkes would bring his own 275 GTB in and work on it, and his ladyfriend Brenda Vernor (Enzo Ferrari's future secretary) would be there too."
    Piper recalls those days: "Tom was a good chum of mine; I rather liked him. Those were the days when everyone came to Modena to do their thing, there were lots of Americans visiting. Tom's Thomassimas were great fun to look at, with outrageous designs. I don't know whether he was interested or financially able to make them completely streetworthy."
    He also remembers a younger James Glickenhaus too .....
    If you have any success getting photos of Thomassima II or III, I'd be interested in sharing. Not just a P4ophile!
     
  5. nickm

    nickm Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    371
    Ventura Ca.
    Yep, I talked to Tom about a year ago then heard back from him last week & we talked for about an hour or so. He had called me about some parts I had for sale. I promised to go down & meet him as he wanted to show me a few things & talk some more. I will probably meet up with him in about 3 weeks as I am so busy I dont have a day to get away from work. Tom is a pretty cool "artsy" guy, & is working on what he says will be his last car. He is also not one to hold back, and told me an interesting story from his days in Modena in the 70's working with David Piper. Like you mentioned Paul, he did remember a young Mr. Glickenhouse too! It's such a small world, isn't it?
     
  6. olinde

    olinde Karting

    Mar 23, 2004
    120
    Hi,

    Does anyone have an update on Topics surrounding Tom Meade, such as:

    a) the whereabouts of Thomassima II or III
    b) details of his most current project, supposedly "his last creation"
    c) photos of his creations?

    I remember the "Road and Track" feature on onbe his cars many years ago and found it stunning. Would love to knwo more.....
     
  7. msage430

    msage430 Formula Junior
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    Feb 8, 2004
    373
    calabasas
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    mike sage
    I just had Lunch with Tom Meade

    any questoins for him I will see him tomarrow
     
  8. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,194
    Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, Anglesey, Wales
    Full Name:
    Angus Podgorney
    Could you please ask him if he remembers the sn of a Lusso he had? It had his knock-offs on it, otherwise stock, red/tan when we had it in 80's.
    TIA, and best regards to him...always loved the T-cars.
     
  9. Racers Edge

    Racers Edge Rookie

    Apr 28, 2005
    5
    The World
    Can anyone help me to locate Tom Meade? I tied the below e-mail address from [email protected] but it bounced back?

    Anyone?

    regards,
    Speedy
     
  10. dbw

    dbw Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2005
    897
    palo alto ca
    Full Name:
    dave
    hi guys and gals....i am attempting to locate the meade creation that used a widened cooper chassis with a 250 engine and bodied as a p-car [with the clever use of an alfa rear glass as a wind screen!] i spent many hours gazing at this treat at a small ferrari repair shop in san carlos calif in the late '60s...it disappeared one day and the last i saw of it was an article in road and track [i think] where it was identified as #2 in the line of thomassima creations...i still retain a handfull of old b&w polaroids [the real old ones you had to hand fix] that show the car on borranis....i have had a few life time automotive goals set and having reached the last [a factory team t-35 b bugatti] my thoughts have fixated on the car i feel was instrumental in forming my misspent automotive career....any leads would be greatly welcomed...thanks a bunch.

    btw..in the same time period there was a 151 maser coupe in a san jose bodyshop being hidden by it's owner..and a mid-engined birdcage in san francisco...and the 550 spyder in berkeley that i bought and drove to design school..but those are other stories.
     
  11. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    #11 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I thought it was about time this thread was given a 'bump' - and a bit of an update. ;)

    I'll start by re-posting a few photos and links to where the car has appeared in other threads.

    From the 'Mystery P4 photos' thread in May 2005

    Originally posted by: 'Miltonian' :

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134909685&postcount=39

    and in response by 'Sfumato':

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134909716&postcount=40
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  12. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #12 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    From the 'Tom Meade Photos Expo' thread, in November 2005, posted by 'Martin308GTB':

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135348184&postcount=11

    (Quoting, partially, from the same text)
    - from 'Ferrari The Sports and Gran Tourismo Cars' by Fitzgerald, Merritt and Thompson':

    'His next design was a P4-like rear-engined berlinetta built in 1967 on a modified De Tomaso single-seat chassis with a 250 GT engine. Called the Thomassima (II), the low, effectively proportioned car was constructed to order for Harry Windsor of California.
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  13. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #13 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a larger scan of that (small) Pete Coltrin photo from 'Fitzgerald, Merritt and Thompson' (Page 163):

    (Unfortunately, it gets a bit pixellated at this size / resolution)

    The same small photo appears on page 39 of the December 1970 issue of Road & Track.
    The article (and front cover), entitled: 'Most sensual Ferrari' predominantly features the Thomassima III .
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  14. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #14 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    From the 'Thomassimas' thead in June 2006, a couple of posts by 'Sicqnus':

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135846011&postcount=5
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135846063&postcount=6

    The 2nd post includes a full set of scans of the Tom Meade article which appeared in the (now defunct) French magazine Auto Passion, issue N° 134 (March / April 2000).
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  15. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    #15 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Or almost appeared in this case. ;)

    Thanks to a great little lead provided by 'Tritone', in the 'Cars and Designs' thread, back in March this year:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136569639&postcount=59

    'Nice article in January issue of Auto Aficionado ….

    Same issue has an article on Tom Meade, with nice period shots.

    'Thomassima' ring a bell for anyone? ....'

    That's the January 2007 issue, Vol 3. N° 1.
    The 6-page article, entitled 'Art Life' contains many of Tom Meade's personal photos of the Thomassima II.
    It's an excellent read, and compared to most of the previous articles on Tom Meade, is far more factual and accurate. Well almost. ;)

    Courtesey of Larry Crane, editor of Auto Aficionado, attached is a low-resolution .pdf of the article. :)
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  16. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #16 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Nothing new ? :(

    Here's what revived my interest, a few weeks ago:

    http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle.php?id=115577 (The thread was originally titled 'Unknown', but has since been re-named).

    I'd also previously found another reference to an 'unknown P4 replica' on a THX 1138 dedicated forum:

    http://thx-1138.org/forum/index.php?topic=19.msg721

    "The red car parked in the lot beside the white T70 is a Ferrari 330 P3 or P4. Judging by a lack of certain details (ie; incorrect rims and stance, missing vents and louvers), I'd say it's probably a replica. Though Fiber Fab never marketed a 330 P3/P4 kit, it's not unlikely that they fabricated this vehicle for the film."

    As confirmed in a recent phone call with Tom Meade, the Thomassima II was used as an 'extra' in THX 1138, early in the 'chase' scene.
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  17. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    The car also featured as an 'extra' in some (night) racing scenes in the 60's B-movie spy flick 'The Fuller Report' (1969).

    The length of time the car is actually on screen can be measured in seconds, but it is recognisable as the Thomassima II.

    See the colour photo (with race #4) at the bottom of page 43 of the Auto Aficionado article, captioned:

    'The color image at left was taken during a Modena Aero / Autodromo track session for a movie'.
     
  18. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    #18 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    How about something old then ? ;)

    Two grainy old B&W photos taken during the (first) ownership of Harry Windsor:

    Note how the 'Targa' roof panel hinges forward to facilitate access to the cockpit (it also removes completely) ....

    .... and the 250GT 'inside plug' motor, which according to Tom Meade came from s/n 1065GT (yet to be verified).
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  19. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #19 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That phrase has been (mis)quoted many times elsewhere, for example in the online AutoChannel article:

    'Tom further developed with his next creation: the Thomassima 2, based on a Cooper monoposto chassis.'

    …. And been contradicted by 'Fitzgerald, Merritt and Thompson':

    'His next design was a P4-like rear-engined berlinetta built in 1967 on a modified De Tomaso single-seat chassis with a 250 GT engine.'

    The Auto Afionado article seems to have got it just about right, IMO. See the sidebar on page 42 of the article:

    'Its rear –engined space frame was first plotted on panels of marine plywood laid on the floor of the shop. Bike shops were the source for high-quality chromoly 4130 steel alloy tubing. It was strong, easily worked and welded and inexpensive in low volume. As the tubular structure became three-dimensional the artist/engineer visited nearby De Tomaso for suspension components. The racecar manufacturer was using Cooper suspension on tubular spaceframes. Meade secured a complete set of uprights, tubular A-arms and disc brakes for all four corners of his new car.'

    I have seen original colour photos of the car's 'unmodified' / 'unwidened' chassis, as it was delivered to Piero Drogo’s Carrozzerie Sports Cars, and as it exists today, in a very slightly modified form. In an effort to determine the origin of the car's chassis I have shared some of these photos with a couple of Cooper marque experts. They have both confirmed that it looks nothing like any period (50's or 60's) Cooper chassis (single-seater or otherwise), and if it ever was one, what was used from it, has been modified beyond recognition.

    However, the car’s (front and) rear uprights have successfully been identified as Cooper T43 or T45 (with slight machining differences).
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  20. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

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    #20 P4Replica, Aug 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Where Auto Aficionado article got it partly wrong is in the summary sidebar on page 46:

    'Number II made its way to Los Angeles and was soon destroyed in an encounter with a Beverly Hills palm tree.'

    The car’s front end was badly damaged in the accident, Yes – but thankfully, the car was far from destroyed. ;)

    The car’s present owner (since 1981) had a considerable amount of work done on the car during the late 80’s: The front part of the chassis was rebuilt, and both front wings have been (re)hammered out. Due to ill heath of the (erstwhile) restorer, it then laid mostly dismantled (apart from the main body chassis) as an 'unfinished project' for nearly 20 years.

    I am pleased to announce that a full and sympathetic (not to say thought-provoking) rebuild / restoration of the Thomassima II was begun in June this year. I consider myself very fortunate to now be privy to that restoration. :)

    At present, I am unable to share any further details or photos, as the owner has requested that his privacy is respected.
    He has also stated that: He is not interested in selling the car at this time.

    There is also the possibility of a follow-up article, specifically on the subject of the Thomassima II, by Auto Aficionado ....
    If nothing else - to correct their earlier slight 'faux pas'. Larry Crane, editor of Auto Aficionado is also a big Tom Meade fan.

    Whereas the Thomassima II has a certain undeniable innate beauty, very much like a P3 or P4 'on steroids', it is nowhere as flamboyant as the later Thomassima III. In fact, the two cars share very little in common ….

    Apart from Tom Meade’s custom steering wheel. (See 'period' B&W photo below).

    And a ‘teaser pic’ for you, of the unrestored steering wheel. Totally O.T.T. ? Or what !!??
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  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Very interesting posting! Are there any reports of how the car drove? Did it work as a car?

    Regards
     
  22. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Thanks, Jim.
    Well, you've probably noticed the smooth, totally flush, upper surface of the car's nose, in the original photos - with no upper outlet vent from the radiator, as in a real P3 or P4 (or any P4 replica for that matter). There used to be an aluminium 'splitter' behind the radiator, which was intended to deflect warm air into the car's front wheel arches. Hardly ideal aerodynamics (at any speed).

    That, and the later fitment of a slightly larger radiator is one of the 'thought-provoking' issues currently facing the restorers:
    How to vent the radiator, efficiently and aerodynamically, and still keep the car's upper nose flush 'as per the original'.
     
  23. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    A tri-angular splitter that ducts air into the front wheel wells coupled with two electric fans mounted on the inside of the vents just behind the front wheels?
     
  24. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Jim.
    Look at what I wrote (quoting from the online Autochannel article) in my post #4 of this thread, back in May 2004:

     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    I saw that but High Output fans might help and would only require cutting inner panels on your photo without nose at sides, splitter/ducting/ to that and hidden fans to relieve built up pressure in wheel wheel, exit air and provide flow. This would be the least obtrusive and might work. A bigger radiator will only help if it has enough flow/air exit. The nose is very nice. Another solution would be to refashion the cowl where it meets the bottom of the windscreen to allow exit and this, while a modification from original, could be done very subtly. One other thing to check out. Make sure the ZF has a trans cooler. With a cooler they are fine. Without one they can become problematic.

    Best
     

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