Direct Import Rules/1966 not smog exempt? | FerrariChat

Direct Import Rules/1966 not smog exempt?

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by Timo04, Feb 20, 2014.

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  1. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tim
    A friend of mine is attempting to import a 1974 Lancia Fulvia Monte Carlo. Direct from Italy to here in California. The DMV has told him that the car is not eligible for registering here in the state of California because it is NOT smog exempt. This is due to the fact that it was not originally imported into the USA back in 1974. In other words, the car cannot be directly imported into California because it does not meet the state's pollution control standards.

    In addition the DMV states:

    “Pursuant to Health and Safety code (HS&C) 43600, vehicles with model years 1966 and newer must comply with California Emission Standards to be registered in this state.”

    Really 1966? This is news, I thought the cut off year for smog exemption was 1976?

    Has anyone run into this same situation?

    If so, what are some of the possible solutions to have this car registered here in California?

    Is an attorney needed?

    We are open to any and all suggestions.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,536
    Left Coast
    call a car importer they will know there is one or two in San Francisco that do this every day.
     
  3. Rory J

    Rory J Formula 3

    May 30, 2006
    1,088
    Smog cutoff is post-'75, you're correct on that. The catch is that even if a vehicle is exempt from smog testing, it must still wear all relevant smog controls that it was fitted with from the factory. Many California-spec cars were fitted with additional equipment than 49-state versions had (air pumps, etc). A California car must retain that air pump, but a 49-state car can be registered without it.

    Long story short, the Lancia should meet regulations not having to pass the exam anymore and not having been fit with smog equipment from the factory. Your friend probably just got someone who didn't know what he/she was doing. Happens all the time at the DMV. He should make an in-person appointment and try again.
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,058
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    For the rest of the US, DOT and EPA regulations are exempted if the imported car is over 25 years old. Does this not apply to California, too?
     
  5. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tim
    #5 Timo04, Feb 21, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
    This "25 year rule" (I think it may even be 21 years, not sure?) supposedly applies to California as well. This is exactly where one of the great inconsistencies with this "1966 and newer rule" lies.

    Update: My friend did in fact have an appointment with the DMV today. He was told that the issue came from head office of the California DMV in Sacramento. Per the advice of the DMV manager he spoke with, who evidently was quite helpful, he is going to try "other channels" to get the Lancia registered.

    As a side note, my friend was also told by this same DMV manager, that some other fellow who purchased a 1966 Ford Mustang (out of state) had the same exact issue as he is currently having with the Lancia. He was denied being able to register the Mustang here in California. It sure would be helpful to find out what happened in the case of the Mustang. I believe he was able to get the car registered. Anyway, can you imagine that? A vintage car like a 1966 Ford Mustang, designed, built and originally sold here in the USA, being denied registration in California because it does not meet emission standards!?! What a terrible thing to pull on car enthusiast and collators who try to bring their cars into this state!

    I will post the results of what transpires with the Lancia. Again any advice would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,
     
  6. porkchopious

    porkchopious Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2009
    329
    Oakton, VA
    Full Name:
    David
    So true. My experience with the various DMV's here in Northern Virginia has been similar. The staff is not very knowledgeable and wouldn't know a Lancia from a Lexus. That can work in your favor when it comes time to tell them how much you paid. Since most of them have no idea what some of the vintage Italian cars are, much less how much they cost, you can tell them you paid whatever you want to! Those boneheads have not idea! Not that I would actually do that....just sayin'.
     
  7. V12StealthHunter

    Feb 24, 2014
    5
    @Timo04, can I get in touch with your friend please? I'm 6 months into the saga with a 1973 XKE Florida car. This is my phone number (use google translate) ; Seicento e sessantanove - Duecento e ventidue - Nove mila
     
  8. V12StealthHunter

    Feb 24, 2014
    5
    Apologies if this turns out to be a double post (can't see my first attempt at one).

    @Timo04, Can I get in touch with your friend. I'm 6 months into the saga with a 1973 XKE from Florida. My number is (first use google translate); Seicento e sessantanove - Duecento e ventidue - Nove mila
     
  9. ProRallyCodriver

    ProRallyCodriver Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2005
    1,250
    Alexandria, VA
    Full Name:
    Dave Shindle
    Yep, my Lancia in NoVa they registered as a 'Linc' -Lincoln. And I was able to declare low value when it came to sales tax and property when I registered it.
     
  10. Taurean Bull

    Taurean Bull Formula 3
    BANNED

    Sep 10, 2010
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    Chad
    OT, but why there isn't MASS EXODUS from California I do not understand. Going to be radioactive soon enough anyway.
     
  11. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tim
    PM sent.

    Thank you,
     
  12. V12StealthHunter

    Feb 24, 2014
    5
    Got your PM. Tried to reply but not sure why its not showing up in my sent folder. In any case, I made some progress recently so I spoke to your friend and gave him some advice. I'll keep in touch and let you all know how it goes.
     
  13. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Many thanks. Your PM has been received. I am also trying other avenues through a local auto importer here in the SF Bay Area. Will post the results. Thanks again.

    Best,
     
  14. V12StealthHunter

    Feb 24, 2014
    5
    Happy Days! It worked! Just got off the phone with DMV/Sacramento and they said the application has been cleared and they will issue plates on March 6th.
     
  15. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

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    198
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    Tim
    Congratulations! This is great news. When you have a chance post some pics of your Jag sometime. I'd love to see the car.
     
  16. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
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    Tim
    #16 Timo04, Mar 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
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    Tim
    #17 Timo04, May 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The saga still continues. I'm looking for any help and advice I can get. I evidently need to get a letter from the manufacturer stating the vehicle meets "California Safety Standards".
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  18. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,536
    Left Coast
    That doesn't look safe
     
  19. ProRallyCodriver

    ProRallyCodriver Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2005
    1,250
    Alexandria, VA
    Full Name:
    Dave Shindle
    #19 ProRallyCodriver, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
    I have cars registered out-of-state in states that accept or have loopholes they fit in that the state or county they are garaged in have too stringent regulations. Their loss of tax revenue for bonehead legislators. Bogus that some counties in the state have emissions testing while others do not.

    Customer who has a modern kitcar w/ most emission controls of the donor engine but better tuned (Noble) was being rejected on visible inspection for components while people building new Cobra kits can run whatever they want just because those resemble an old car. He told state official it was unjust and would just register in neighboring state where he has property or relevates and proper state would lose revenue. State official made exception and got it past. You just need to find the right person to speak with.
     
  20. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
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    Tim
    #20 Timo04, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
    And I suppose the car pictured in your avatar is safe?
     
  21. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Thank you ProRallyCodriver for the tips, greatly appreciated! These new challanges for registering vintage cars here in California are indeed contrived in the minds of bonehead legislators.

    FYI: I learned this today from the Treasurer of a local California Fiat club regarding Title 49, which is the rule that is blocking my car, and others, from being registered here in California.

    "...The only thing that could possibly be an issue
    is if the car has less than 7500 miles on it. Then California could
    technically consider it a "new car" and insist it meet emission
    standards. I have never heard of this happening to a car as old as
    yours.

    Perhaps you are refering to Title 49 of the U.S. Code. It contains the
    part prohibiting the import of vehicles that don't meet safety
    standards, but does not apply to cars 25 years old or older.
    When you bring a car in to the U.S. you have to fill out form HS-7 and
    just check the box that says your car is 25 or more years old. If you
    need a new one, do a search and print one up.

    There's also EPA form 3520-1, that you can fill out yourself. Just
    check the box that says your car is at least 21 years old and
    unmodified. Then you're exempt from U.S. smog certification."
     
  22. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    91,534
    Fuggetaboutitland
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    Bob
    I left California in the late 1990's and even then that sort of approach was no longer possible as they were cracking down on people who kept cars there with out of state registration. The Oregon registration scheme used to be big years ago.

    When you first register a car in California you HAVE to pass ALL the emissions standards even if you do live in a non smog check state. Those standards keep evolving too. It's my belief that my 77 Maserati could no longer be legally registered there even with all of it's smog equipment intact because they've changed the standards. The message is clear, just go away. I had a couple of my cars registered there once and one was even purchased there new. Neither could ever return.
     
  23. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,536
    Left Coast
    Very safe see the bumper, your car doesn't even have bumpers.
     
  24. JasonMiller

    JasonMiller F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 16, 2004
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    Co Springs/ Texas
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    Jason Miller
    Ship it here to Colorado, register it and ship it back, drive it.. We registered my Dads corvette here and has never had a problem.

    I could never live in a state that wont allow me to own and drive my classic cars.
     
  25. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting

    Jul 2, 2007
    198
    S.F. Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Tim
    #25 Timo04, May 19, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    True, the car in your avatar has vintage bumpers, but do they really make it "very safe"? Really? ;)

    How about other safety features such as; high back seats to help prevent whiplash, and Britax shoulder belts? At least that's what this is what this Lancia Fulvia Monte Carlo is equipped with. In my opinion this Fulvia not any less safe to drive than my old 1970 BMW 2002 (pic attached), which by the way has bumpers, and which are bascially worthless at high speed impact.

    The bottom line is this: If I attempted to import this 1970 BMW 2002 with it's factory bumpers and all, directly into California from anywhere outside the USA, I would run into the exact same issues with the DMV. The exact same registration issues as I am currently having with the Lancia Fulvia Monte Carlo.

    I don't believe it will come to this; but if I have to install 2nd series Coupé factory bumpers (which by the way is a very straightforward bolt on installation) on the Fulvia Monte Carlo, just so it can be registered, then so be it.

    Let's be real. How many non-modified cars built in the 1960's and 1970's, bumpers or no bumpers, are really considered to be "safe" by today's standards?
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