What can you tell me about Alfa 164's?

paging Dr. Sherpa....

 

I like the looks of those a lot. But I've never heard the words "Alfa" and "reliable" in the same sentence. You don't want it for a daily driver, do you?

 

Two words

Torque steer.

Never have I driven a car with more torque steer than the 164.

 

Cool! Not only is a 164, it's an S. If the price is right, go for it.

Make sure you service the timing belt (do the water pump at the same time) if the last replacement schedule is unknown.

The HVAC stepper motors are troublesome - most have been replaced by now, but it usually renders the system inoperable. It's difficult to get at the stepper, and if I recall correctly, the stepper is expensive.

Reliable? not particularly, but whatever..


Those look like MOMO Mirage wheels, they're not original - but they look nice. Values range based on condition, but if you can get in cheap, GO FOR IT!! The engine sounds great, makes decent power, and as mentioned above - a wee bit of torque steer (understatement) - but the many I've driven have always put a smile on my face.

I had an Alfa Romeo Milano, and I loved the thing. A 164S is a very interesting car.

 

All the above is very true at this point. The belts always had to be changed before 50,000. Chain driven would have been better. The 164 was a relaible car when new, but it is now over 20 years old. They are not worth anything so the owners will only just keep them up. When a car gets this old wiring starts to crack and chafe. Also the Bosch air flow meter and ECU cause alot of problems(I had the same issues on several cars..weak point of the car, Motronic Bosch injection!!). On 1991 and early 1992 cars they used the old valve guides wich need to be changed or the car will smoke alot and foul plugs. Post 1992 have the later guides that last a long time. I have had several 164's and when they were new were as reliable as trucks...Much more reliable than the Milano!!

I have a Milano Verde and several GTV 6's also. The Verde had alot of changes as compared to the GTV6 that made it a pain in the butt...ABS and electrical problems have been an issue on all three of the Milano's I have owned. It also feels alot heavier and does not handle as good as a GTV 6. That's because it is longer, higher up and weighs alot more than a GTV6. The Milano is the car I think people should avoid unless they really like it for it's looks.

 

I have daily driven my 95 LS for over a year now, and it hasn't given me a single problem. It does have occasional electronic glitches, but that just adds a little character. I'm sure nobody could open the sunroof in my car but me LOL. My car is a 24v which is known for being more temperamental than the 12v. 12v cars are much easier to maintain

All the issues that have been said above are true. I would like to add the heater core an starter to that list. The heater core is known for failure and is difficult to replace. The starter is reliable but I'm listing it because it is a HUGE PITA to replace. Also, my car has very little torque steer.

164s are very comfortable, and great for highway cruising. The Busso V6 really is one of the best engines ever made. The sound and response are absolutely incredible. Did I mention it sounds awesome?

Another thing I love is the styling. It looks beautiful, and it's not too flashy. It only attracts the attention of other car guys which is great. It has sparked great conversations and created many good friends.

That S looks like an awesome car. I say go for it. Mine still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. That's all that matters to me.

 

What can I say? It's awesome.

Okay, I bought a 164L as a DD back in September. Do you want to know how many days I've actually driven it? Other than the test drive, zero days. However, it's not all bad. First of all, it's an immaculate car with beautiful leather, and everything works. It was owned by a fellow FCS member for years and serviced at the Ferrari dealership. What happened is that when I bought it, the dealer from whom I purchased it agreed to do the timing belt service for me and fix a bunch of other little things as part of the agreement. Well, when they got in there they found one thing after another and not being Alfa experts, it's taken them a little bit of time to fix it all. However, they took care of all kinds of things that they saw, all on their dime, and they have absolutely lost their ass on it. I bet they have more into it fixing all the odds and ends than I paid in total. As a result, I will definitely throw that dealership some more business. And I drove the car yesterday and it's freaking awesome.

It's essentially like driving an early 90's BMW or Mercedes but with an Italian twist to it. It has a lot of Saab in it as well as it's a shared platform with the 900. It has a sweet V6 sound and mine is chipped with an exhaust. I am hoping that when I start driving it next week or so that it provides many miles of fun as a daily.

 

I've daily driven one for almost two years now. Put about 22k miles on it, and it has been awesome, but also had a few issues.

I've redone the top end (head gaskets, guides, seals, etc), the interior and exterior door handles are pot metal and are prone to breaking, the electronics are very finicky, the motor mounts are expensive and hydraulic, lots of torque steer!, BUT:

The bottom end is bullet proof, its comfortable, it sounds great (I have the rear muffler removed as well to give it a nice gurgle and a little more noise), I get compliments on it all the time and most people have no idea what it is. One guy at a gas station even called it a PEUGEOT!!!, I promptly corrected him. It is a blast to drive, and even with its faults I love it. My ex didn't, she just didn't get it though. That's why she's an ex.

It is definitely an Italian and has to be treated as such.

 

Here is my last 164 a few months ago in the middle of this winter, the worst I can remember. It always starts and runs when Honda's and Toyota's won't. I have a Shankle suspension in mine, so it is low. Also I have a "chip" and had the valves done(it is a 1991). I had a 1994 164 24 valve around 5 years ago that was even more reliable than the 12 valve(yes more reliable not less). If you can find a 164 Q 24 valve that is the car to own. Bullet proof unless you break a timing belt and with 230 hp pretty fast...The timing belts have to be changed out before 50,000 miles. I always do them around 40,000 just to be safe.
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164s do surprisingly well in the snow. We had about 8" last month and I was worried I'd be stuck. Once I dug it out and warmed it up, it did just fine.
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This is my second Alfa Romeo, the first one being a Milano 2.5. The 164 LS has overall bettter quality components and much of the interior and electrics seem to be of better quality than the older Alfa`s.

I`ve put 7,000 miles on mine this year and it hasn`t left me stranded once, even when confronted with frigid Canadian winters. My friends are surprised at how reliable it is, but most of that reliability is due to the previous owner and his routine maintenance. I`m fortunate to work in the car business so I have contacts and mechanics who will work on it for very cheap.

The trick with Alfa`s is to drive them regularly and respect them accordingly. The 24V engine is just amazing and it`s got so much top end power.

The door actuators and locks do not like extreme cold so prepare accordingly. The cars actually heat up quite well.
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Here she is in -35 Celsius with really good winter tires....
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For those who might be interested, this 164 looks very nice (but is higher mileage)

Alfa Romeo Other Quadrifoglio | eBay

 

My 164 experience is mostly old car issues. I have owned it since 2006 and it is now up to 100K miles. It is a 94 LS automatic. Basically everything but the engine and transmission has been replaced. These include new radiator, several radiator fluid expansion tanks (they crack after about 3-4 years), front struts, rear shocks, AC compressor, starter motor, master brake cylinder, brake booster, several coil packs, and recently a rebuilt power steering rack. This has been spread out over 8 years. Even still, I enjoy it very much.

Good luck with your decision.

Jeff
Dallas, TX

 

"The Milanese firm's reputation for fragility might be ruined if only people knew that these safe, sporty (DOHC V-6), and supersolid front-wheel-drive four-doors will run to absurdly high mileages if decently maintained - try 250,000 miles plus. My own, purchased with 174,000 for $1000, has no rot, looks Pininfarina good, and runs like a train. Some mistake, surely?"


Future Non-Classics Futures

 

Dave, I agree. Now that I have mine sorted, I am looking forward to another five or six years of fun with the car. I get a lot of complements when I take it to shows.

Cheers,

Jeff
Dallas.

 

'Just because it looks so good...
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Wish I still had my 164S. I used it as a daily driver for about 8 years before I sold it to buy a pickup truck...

It was a great car. Tons of fun. Yes, torque steer, but so what. Mine was a 1991 and still looked great in 2007 when I sold it. I wish I still had it as my daily driver.

The key with Alfa's (and Ferrari's) is preventative maintenance. Do not let it go.

 

I owned 2 of them. Both were 1991 "L" models. My was a 5 speed manual. My wife had the ZF automatic. The ZF pretty much goes "kaput" at 100k miles. We had ours rebuilt and then I traded it in for an '83 Lamborghini Jalpa.

The previous owner of mine added a stainless steel exhaust from Stebro, put Koni adjustable shocks all around and Kinesis 17" wheels. I really enjoyed this car!

Mike
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Actually it's a shared platform with the SAAB 9000... and Lancia Thema and Fiat Croma. So, it's Front Wheel Drive... The 900 was a SAAB only platform.

The platform was developed jointly by SAAB and Lancia... so Fiat and Alfa got versions, too.

The SAAB and the Alfa are the best looking... with the Alfa 164 getting the nod.

I have driven a SAAB 9000 Aero Turbo (fastest production sedan in the world at one time) a lot, and the 164 a moderate bit... both are great, great cars.

 

I picked mine up and I've been driving it. It's so awesome.
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Look at Milanos. Proper Alfa. 3L of course.
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This is what has gone wrong with Alfa; their cars don't have any ALFA DNA, but are just badge engineering.

It's a scandal that Alfa which could hold its own against BMW in the 60s and 70s, has been allowed to sink so low as to be merely FIAT under the skin.

A front-wheel drive Alfa is an heresy ...

 

Wow! Bring that to C&C!!!