Pantera values?

This should be good

 

Pantera's are appreciating. Slow and steady. As with most cars the ones with the lowest mileage, in original condition usually command the most money. Not always, but usually, there are always exceptions. I would think also that a totally original car, if in great shape might be worth slightly more than a restored car, for a particular buyer. Some restorations far exceed what ever came out of the factory so that could be a big factor given two competitively priced cars so far as the restored car wasn't a basket case like the F40 on Gas Monkey Garage.

 

Anyone know why every one i see for sale has a rebuilt engine? Wasnt it just a ford v8?

 

They have rebuilt engines because the cars are now 40+ years old!!!!!
Gaskets, seals, bearings and the like deteriorate...

 

Some people drive them hard, others want more power.

 

Rebuilt or original mean almost nothing, half the owners that think theirs are original are in for surprises. V8's in most all euro exotics like Iso's , Bizzarrini's , Intermecchanica's Pantera's Mangusta's and so on were rode hard and many were broken and repaired early in life.

My findings are that when most of these old engines that are thought to be original are pulled apart you find it just isn't true.

 

I think price is much less dependent upon originality than many others cars. In part, the cars were in many ways dreadful from the factory. They'd overheat esp. in traffic or warm ambient temps, electrical system lacked relays for high current things like headlights, window lift gears would break, and chassis was likely to rust if run in the rain. If you want art that rolls 100 mi per year in perfect conditions , then maybe original is fine. But if you want to drive much you will want a modified car. I had one (1972 Pre-L) and swear I turned every nut and bolt at least once until I sorted it. Did One Lap 1995 in it successfully. I'd never even consider a 100% original car and am skeptical that they exist unless the original owner could verify.

 

My Pantera has a little over 6500 miles. The engine was rebuilt by me. The original owner wanted more power and took it apart in 1975 & never got back to it. The values will be higher for original cars. Modified is something done for individual taste. Now that being said, a 100% original car is a half finished car. Many of the mods are done for a reason, like overheating. Buy what you want & enjoy it.

 

I don't know much about these cars but I do like how mods are encouraged

 

Or necessitated!

And its not just DeTomaso, my older Ferrari has needed incredible updating. (fuseboxes, A/C, bushings, window motors etc.)

 

Yup-I've got an electronic ignition on the horizon for my 308 Dino. I just can't bring myself to make the cut over yet b/c the dizzys just keep chugging along.

 

Do it. You wont regret it. Make sure you do the setup that uses ONE distributor for the timing of both distributors.

 

If I read your signature correctly, you live in Minnesota. I'll wager getting stuck in Dallas traffic on a 105 deg day you'll sing a different tune on the cooling system and A/C for that matter. I had to significantly re-work both, with new radiator, better fans, extra relays to run those fans, bigger alternator to supply enough current at idle, better Denso compressor, among other things. And if the owner put 10K on it before you bought in the 80s (circa 1985, perhaps?), then you put another 9K on it in 30 years to get to the 19K you now have. Not exactly a torture test at 300 mile per year average. I put over 4500 miles in one week on the One Lap and tracked the car to boot. A stock car would never have survived.

I stand by my remark that a Pantera needs significant updating to be used significantly in traffic, rain, hot weather, and don't even think about any track work without mods. I suspect your usage is very gentle, no rain, no traffic jams, no track time, and even no temps over about 85 deg or so and extensive idling. I bet even no real night drives (the headlights are not very good).

And the L cars are not significantly better engineered; the biggest changes are the larger DOT bumpers and the better dash ergonomics with the tach and speedo being much more readable. It's been a long time, but I think the L cars had the less desirable open chamber heads, too.

Don't get me wrong, they are great cars and I am haphazardly looking for one, but again, not a 100% original car. They simply need a lot of updates unless if you want any approximation of modern usability.

As for values, all over the place! I'd say 50-60K gets you a decent driver with some basic updates, and well over 100K for a real factory GT5S or tastefully modified earlier car. There are not a lot of these cars, probably under 5K total from 1970-the 80s, so plan on a long search for the right car.

 

Love the color. And the original look has aged well 40 years later

 

I'll bet 911 but A/C will probably be marginal. My point is that the Pantera was not well developed by DeTomaso. Not surprising given the low production numbers and undoubtably low development budget. The good news is that the aftermarket is incredibly robust for such a low production volume car and the owner network is probably the strongest of any marque I have owned

 

I'd take your wager. My 1973, which I've owned for 29 years and bought off the original owner, still has its original radiator which has never been out of the car nor has its original waterpump.

Two years ago we had a heatwave here in TN and temps were at 106 for a few days. I took the opportunity to really test out the cooling system and drove for 40 minutes in stop & go traffic during rush hour on the busiest road around just to make the conditions as bad as I could. The hottest I could get it to was 208 as verified by an infrared thermometer pointed at the back of the head. The car never even came close to overheating a single time. The original A/C worked flawlessly.

The main reason the 1971 thru mid 1972 Pantera overheated was that a large number of the radiators in them were incorrectly constructed and designed by the manufacturer. The radiator was originally designed with a vertical baffle which divided the radiator into a rear pass and a front pass; it was determined the vertical baffle was responsible for most of the Pantera’s overheating problems because too much coolant flowed around the baffle thereby bypassing the radiator. The radiator was changed to a horizontal baffle and eliminated the overheating.

If a relatively stock Pantera has a correctly functioning radiator, all the air out of the system, timing & fuel correctly set up, and a healthy waterpump, there isn't a reason in the world why they should overheat in 100+ degree temps.

I'd love to see a list of all the changes to the "L" models, I know there were lots of changes/updates from the earlier cars.

Some that come to mind are: Bumpers; which according to Pantera designer Tom Tjaarda incorporated an airfoil which created downforce on the front end for better high speed stability/less front end lift than the earlier cars, Radiator baffle corrected thus eliminating the overheating issue, Engine cover redesigned, Upgrades to electrics including putting all electrical relays on a single panel on the left side of the interior; matching fuse panel on the right hand side, Revised A/C, New universal joints introduced with lifetime lubrication and improved bearing seals, Clutch upgraded to a Borg and Beck assembly, Revised front-wheel opening flanges to lessen front tires rubbing on inside of fenders, Clutch effort reduction linkage, External gas filler door to eliminate having to raise the deck-lid to fill the tank and eliminate the fire hazard of gasoline spilling onto hot headers, mufflers were different; I'm sure there are a lot more.

Road & Track’s conclusion in August 1972 on the "Pre L" was that the Pantera was “just another high-priced kit car…One should be resigned to spending a great deal of money trying to make it work, and at the same time not overly hopeful of accomplishing it.”

Just one year later, Road & Track took notice of the improvements of the "L" model noting “The Pantera shows signs of being perfectible,” and congratulating Ford and De Tomaso on the progress that had been made. Road Test magazine headlined, “After numerous refinements, this Italo-American creation has become the ideal car for the true enthusiast.”

Road Test Magazine presented the DeTomaso Pantera L with its 1973 Import Car of the Year Award with the Pantera L coming out ahead of Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Porsche, and the like. Nice changes indeed.

 

I'm testing the waters in regard to selling my GT5-S. However when I go to my garage for some therapy the Pantera still gets its fair share of attention. 15 inch mags with 345 tires and steel factory wide body will do it every time! I would not recommend driving in the wet or damp conditions on a cold day! '80's technology was not the best not matter what exotic is considered. The brakes are only so so and the bump steer sucks. You have to pay attention but that's part of the challenge and satisfaction. It demands respect. I had a '76 Turbo Carrera that had awful brakes, virtually no A/C and not exactly the best handling, unless you like looking out of the rear window to steer! You can lope a long in any gear or let it lose and be grinning from cheek to cheek. And, maintain it properly, it will never overheat. If you want to wake up the Tifosi, and stand out from the crowd this will do it and it will get you home!
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Stevec, that is absolutely stunning! Don't you dare sell it; I guarantee you'll regret it.

 

I agree. Don't sell it. Especially with the Pantera and GT5-S prices increasing. Less than 200 GT5-S's.