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  #1121  
Old 07-14-2017, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TheMayor View Post
Not as much of an UGH as a $300,000 USD Ferrari 488 topping out at 7500 where it's predecessor was at 9K

It seems to me that the trend to turbo charging is having lower redlines because there is more torque down lower.
That's rubbish
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  #1122  
Old 07-14-2017, 08:16 AM
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How come nearly every press car breaks? Not good.
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  #1123  
Old 07-14-2017, 09:32 AM
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How come nearly every press car breaks? Not good.
Agree but anything Jalopcrap says is garbage
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  #1124  
Old 07-14-2017, 01:25 PM
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Car and Driver's test of the Giulia 2.0T Q2.

Slower times than Motor Trend' test. Test model 181 lbs / 82 Kg heavier and redline at 5900 RPM against MT's 6100 RPM.


2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0T RWD Test | Review | Car and Driver

Depends on who's driving the car, I've seen 5.4 to 60 from other mags for the RWD. The Q4 is 5.1 to 60 or better. Redline 5500 and it's not a big deal, shift with or without the paddles and it gets you to 75mph in a heart beat. The nicks on the interior by MT are mostly BS. Everything is as nice as the others, although the Merc probably has the nicest that I've seen. My friend has a M2 and the interior of my TI is on par with it. The real wood accents on my car are beautiful and it all works great. Going on 3k miles on mine and no problems at all with anything. Also the steering on my car is better than my friend's M2. The only thing MT is right about is the small visors, they should be bigger. Since I purchased my car my aver. mpg is 26.6 and that's for about 80% in town driving, 20% highway. My last 100 mile highway trip I averaged 37.3 mpg at 75mph and that's in Colorado with significant elevation changes. Check and see how my real world figures stack up against any of its competition (again I'm in Colorado not Florida). Last but not least the sound should be better but Centerline International just solved that problem with a brand new Magnaflow exhaust system (not just a different muffler or a fart can) designed specifically for the TI and it sounds great and adds hp too for a very reasonable cost. I have it and it's fantastic, check it out on alfabb.com.

Last edited by TMan; 07-14-2017 at 01:37 PM.
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  #1125  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:17 AM
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The frequency of reported repairs in the first 1,000 miles is rather alarming, particularly since the anecdotal evidence shows these are more than just returns to the dealer for rattles, etc.

Seems the motor shutting down while driving or going into limp-home mode is not uncommon.

Alfa Romeo Giulia Issues And Problems - Alfa Romeo Giulia Forum
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  #1126  
Old 07-15-2017, 03:17 PM
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Shame they botched it. I drive by the alfa dealer every day heading home from work and have been drooling over the giulias in the lot.
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  #1127  
Old 07-15-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fastback33 View Post
Shame they botched it. I drive by the alfa dealer every day heading home from work and have been drooling over the giulias in the lot.

Botched it? Go to your local Merc dealer and see how many cars are there for warranty service.

The Jalopcrap "report" was from people hitting the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. The car goes into limp mode because its not understanding why the car is not moving at the correct speed.

Is that Alfa's fault? Perhaps. They didn't figure dumb ass reporters trying it.
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  #1128  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:18 AM
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Botched it? Go to your local Merc dealer and see how many cars are there for warranty service.

The Jalopcrap "report" was from people hitting the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. The car goes into limp mode because its not understanding why the car is not moving at the correct speed.

Is that Alfa's fault? Perhaps. They didn't figure dumb ass reporters trying it.
I often brake and accelerate at the same time, especially if on a race track and trying to balance the car or heal and toeing ... or I'm in mud and trying to get grip, I will use the brake to control wheelspin.

So yeah Alfa's fault as you should be able to do anything and the car's computer should not have a fit. This is like people who program/code computers expecting all data to be perfect and all users to never make a mistake ... IMO should never be allowed to work in the field of programming again.
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  #1129  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMayor View Post
Botched it? Go to your local Merc dealer and see how many cars are there for warranty service.

The Jalopcrap "report" was from people hitting the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. The car goes into limp mode because its not understanding why the car is not moving at the correct speed.

Is that Alfa's fault? Perhaps. They didn't figure dumb ass reporters trying it.
Yes, absolutely alfa's fault. They were a bit too "lax" on this one. This car needed to be 100% bullet proof and it isnt. Believe me, I despise jalopnik but if enough magazines start picking up that the giulias have this issue people who don't know they brand or even the cause will have the opportunity to find it.

This car HAD to be 100% dead nuts reliable. It isn't. Even for a stupid little issue like this.
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  #1130  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:56 PM
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This car HAD to be 100% dead nuts reliable. It isn't.
Buy A Lexus if you are looking for a 100% reliable car. Do not buy a German car.

That said, there's a reason why you never buy a car in the first year of its production.....even Porsche **** the bed with the 996 engines.

Give Alfa time, they will get it sorted.
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  #1131  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:22 AM
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Buy A Lexus if you are looking for a 100% reliable car. Do not buy a German car.

That said, there's a reason why you never buy a car in the first year of its production.....even Porsche **** the bed with the 996 engines.

Give Alfa time, they will get it sorted.
We are enthusiasts here and love Alfa, so we are more likely to give it time and one/two/five passes regarding these issues. But we are probably 1% of the total market that Alfa needs.

Sure German cars have issues but they also have a much better reputation and to the regular joe looking for a 4 sedan in the $45k range, he will rather spend it with them or with Lexus than with Alfa (even if he likes the Alfa) because Alfa has a poor reputation (here moreso than in Europe) and all the other issues discussed here (fewer dealerships, untrained crew at Fiat dealers etc..).

With that said, i would buy a QV over an M3 but not everyone is a petrolhead.
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  #1132  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:58 AM
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We are enthusiasts here and love Alfa, so we are more likely to give it time and one/two/five passes regarding these issues. But we are probably 1% of the total market that Alfa needs.

Sure German cars have issues but they also have a much better reputation and to the regular joe looking for a 4 sedan in the $45k range, he will rather spend it with them or with Lexus than with Alfa (even if he likes the Alfa) because Alfa has a poor reputation (here moreso than in Europe) and all the other issues discussed here (fewer dealerships, untrained crew at Fiat dealers etc..).

With that said, i would buy a QV over an M3 but not everyone is a petrolhead.
I had a bmw e90-it was good but far from perfect. Wanted to hold onto to it until the Giulia came out but alas couldn't; leased a Lexus IS and like it so far. They don't use run flats which was a pet peeve of mine. Car rode like **** here in The northeast in the winter.

Alfa needs time-when the Lexus comes off lease the Alta's teething problems should be resolved....I hope!
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  #1133  
Old 07-17-2017, 12:02 PM
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the guy that had the loaner alfa for over a month now has a new AMG merc... never saw the alfa make it back
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  #1134  
Old 07-17-2017, 01:18 PM
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Alfa needs time-when the Lexus comes off lease the Alta's teething problems should be resolved....I hope!
If they are still selling Alfas in America ...

IMO, and I come from an IT background, there is too much computer **** being put on modern cars that are simply not required. Yes we can, but really should we.

Example, the Hino truck I drive has a computer controlled automatic transmission that apparently adapts to how I drive ... do we need this? and what advantage does it give? Its a flippin truck, it should just never stop going. Same thing on my daughter's VW Golf, why? How much fuel economy improvements does it make ... bugger all I reckon.

The only good use of computers was the ECU, to control ignition and fuel injection. That is all that is required. Modern engineers need to stop masturbating over technology and remember that unlike home PC's, stopping and restarting a car is a real pain in the arse and not something users/drivers are happy to get used to doing.

It is so disappointing to see how humanbeings are miss using computing power. Engineering should be solving the "need" question, not trying to stick computers everywhere just because they can.
Pete
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  #1135  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:25 PM
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... IMO, and I come from an IT background, there is too much computer **** being put on modern cars that are simply not required. Yes we can, but really should we. ...
I'm also a firm believer in "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

But computer cars are the modern reality.

It began with the CAN bus, replacing heavy and expensive copper cable bundles with serial data communications.

Some of this is just a solid state version of the trusty relay.
Running headlamp current through the dash and stalk would require heavy and costly components, and cause excess voltage drop.
So way back in ye olde days, you were running a control voltage that flipped a relay.
Well over a decade ago, cars moved to computerized lights, where a signal from the dash computer told the headlamp assembly computer what lights to turn on -- even before the advent of LED lights.

This has been a disappointment to basic aftermarket modders.
In the old days, you could fiddle with the wire bundles and cause the fog lights to come on as you like, rather than as mandated by the government.
Now you have more flexibility to set how you like --- if you can reprogram the software.

Drive by wire throttles replaced the separate mechanical linkage and attached sensor cluster with a single integrated system ...
... really just a further development of engine management.

And with ABS and "autobrake" systems being layered on the braking system, brake by wire was the next step.
Wired! How Continental helps the Alfa Romeo Giulia put in a show-stopping braking performance - Continental Tyres: Vision Zero
Yes, you're not directly operating the brakes. But vacuum assist braking dates back to 1927.

All these things add up to lower weight and more flexibility.

But when you have that many possible adjustments, it'll take a while to find the sweet spot on setup.


And it can't be much worse than classic Alfa hydraulics, that had common hydraulic seal failures in both brake and clutch cylinders.
(I suspect this is from the metal used in the cylinders, that would develop corrosion far too readily, trashing the seals.)


There's a place in the average enthusiast's garage for an Olde School basic motorcar.
But the Giulia was built for the high end of the daily driver market, not as a weekend warrior.

Last edited by DGS; 07-17-2017 at 06:31 PM.
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  #1136  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:29 PM
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Psk DGS, great posts! I think you spelled out the whole story with those two posts. I pray this fall and MY2018 will have most issues sorted.
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  #1137  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by classic308 View Post
Buy A Lexus if you are looking for a 100% reliable car. Do not buy a German car.

That said, there's a reason why you never buy a car in the first year of its production.....even Porsche **** the bed with the 996 engines.

Give Alfa time, they will get it sorted.
Buying a Lexus is exactly what the laymen are going to do. Which are the same people alfa needed to pull away from their current brand.

The success of this car doesn't rest on the shoulder s of enthusiats.
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  #1138  
Old 07-18-2017, 01:26 AM
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Media do love to hit Alfa hard.

The brake and accelerate issue is, I believed is fixed with latest updates. Most of these issues with the press were with early cars. As for Jalopypik, all they seem to do is report the previous reports by other reporters
I do wonder if they get backhanders from the likes of BMW etc get for slagging off this superb car.
I think the Germans perhaps are a little worried.
My DD is German and I do like it alot but it is not really any different than my two previous Alfas regarding reliability.
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  #1139  
Old 07-18-2017, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post

The only good use of computers was the ECU, to control ignition and fuel injection. That is all that is required. Modern engineers need to stop masturbating over technology and remember that unlike home PC's, stopping and restarting a car is a real pain in the arse and not something users/drivers are happy to get used to doing.

It is so disappointing to see how humanbeings are miss using computing power. Engineering should be solving the "need" question, not trying to stick computers everywhere just because they can.
Pete
Don't forget that a lot of this comes due to governmental regulations.
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  #1140  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:39 AM
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... The brake and accelerate issue is, I believed is fixed with latest updates. ...
Being new software, of course there were some bugs to fix.

I've heard, on a Giulia owners forum, that it's difficult to get a really smooth low speed stop from a new-off-the-showroom car, but that it improves when the brakes run in. The software is set for the long term case. (In engineering, we call this "edge effects". )

The media really should be testing cars that are past their break-in period, not the ones fresh from the machining in the showrooms.
Or they should at least be cognizant of the differences.

Rodent Track used to run long term reviews on cars, where they'd see how it fared over six to twelve months of use.
But "webporters" don't really have the budget for that.
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