The P2 class dwindles even more on the news that Muscle Milk won't be returning. Despite all the claims of a BoP, the P2 teams obviously disagree. Are P2 cars soon to be history in the TUSC? | News | Motorsport.com BHW
super bummed about MMPR. they were my favorite ALMS team to be fair though, P2 is dying in WEC as well.
btw at Long Beach, both in qualifying and the race the fastest P2 was only 0.3 seconds off the fastest DP. in my opinion that's pretty good BoP for two very dissimilar race cars. to put that in perspective, the same gaps in GTLM were about a tenth and a half.
In that case, perhaps there is something more to it than BoP. Guessing the behind the scenes nonsense must be off the scale. BHW
I'm not sure what's going on behind the scenes in TUSC, in WEC P2 is still a pro-am series and I think they've run out of Ams wanting to write checks
It's a darn shame that ALMS teams aren't comfortable with the new series. Irrespective of whether it's a BoP issue, a tire adjustment issue or just pure favoritism, prototype numbers are falling rapidly. If you look at the number of DP & ALMS cars that ran last year compared to what we have left, it's not good news. Dyson Racing, a sports-prototype bastion for decades, is out of prototypes, Gainsco-Stallings is gone, Muscle Milk is now gone ... How many protos are left now for each race? Maybe 8 or 10? I hope this changes, as I was very optimistic about the combined series. With Indycar being a spec series (albeit an upper echelon spec series) and with F1 being hideously ugly and flatulent, I thought TUSC might be of great interest. Hope they can turn it around, somehow.
What I don't understand is how or why they blended DP and P2 into a single prototype category and why the P2 teams agreed to this. Yes, the P2 cars are nimble and fast in the turns but nothing beats horsepower and they had to know that that the added downforce and better brakes on the DP cars would make them faster in the turns. With both ALMS and GrandAM teams abandoning the series, there certainly must be things happening behind the scenes that they're not liking. Dyson was smart enough to stay away and watch what was happening and he obviously wasn't impressed. Since we've seen that they will openly and shamelessly manipulate races to produce a melancholy finish, even though with the reliability of today's cars this manipulation is hardly necessary, they still can't help themselves since they've been doing it in NASCAR for decades, what will be left? What we'll be stuck with will be a virtual monopoly of all of racing in the U.S. run by the ISC and NASCAR exactly as I've been warning for the better part of three decades now. It may be taking longer than they would have liked but once they get done running sports car racing into the ground and they wait for Indy Car to self-implode and they buy those assets for pennies on the dollar, it will be fete complete. Won't it be great when every major track and every series in the U.S. will be under the thumb of the ISC and NASCAR? What could possibly go wrong? BHW
they didn't agree to it...they were told this is what is going happen, take it or leave it; and it's about 50/50 on taking it vs. leaving it of the 5 full time cars left, 2 are the Mazda diesels (woefully off pace but Mazda is marketing it well), and 2 are tied to Patron and Ed Brown, who is using the sport as a marketing tool to sell tequila (apparently with some success)...so really there's only one P2 team that is there on their own free will, OAK Racing, and there are rumors they might pull out soon too. I could see them skipping everything but 6 hours at the Glen and Petit. btw I remember Dyson saying something last year to the effect that "the only way to succeed in the new series will be to run a DP, and I refuse to do that"...so I think everyone saw the handwriting on the wall.
Too bad. Logically, P2 should be a class to itself and not blended with DP cars for overall wins. Oh well, P2 will eventually die out on its own. GTLM will likely follow and what we'll have left is GrandAM once again. You'd think the manufactures would be screaming, and maybe they are behind the scenes. But, with the additional manufacturer interest moving over to PWC, perhaps they'll get the message? BHW
GTLM is dead in the water, with GT convergence on the horizon (largely based around GT3 specs). manufacturers love that, they'll still be able to have proper full factory teams with true pro drivers, but all the R&D will be paid for by the Ams in my mind true prototype racing should be a manufacturer driven class...think ALMS P2 from 06-09 (roughly) or WEC P1 now, or even FIA GT back around 2000...when manufacturers back out and their place is taken by privateers, that's when that rule package should be thrown out.
Cost of running a prototype has to be HUGE. Even in the lower class. Cars in P1 were "space shuttle money" programs. P2 has to be some significant portion of that. Hard to find sponsorships in this environment, too. Even the privateer teams can'd find funding as easily from wealthy "gentlemen drivers". And, with more races on the calendar, increase the budget accordingly. Not really surprising. Disappointing, though. CW
WEC P2 (and ALMS/TUSC) was "cost contained", so I think a full season ALMS P2 budget was around $5mm, which is a fraction of what Audi/Toyota/Porsche are spending, but still a big check to stroke for the gentleman driver crowd.
P2 and BOP may not actually be the reason for Muscle Milk / Pickett pulling out. Cytosport is for sale.
that's been in the works for a while though (before Daytona at least), so while I agree there's more than just BoP to the MMPR story, I'm not sure that's it. the Picketts are racers, I have a feeling they'll be somewhere....
The ACO is finally showing concern. The mockery of the TUSC series is making of P2 isn't going down so well back in France. ACO Voices Concern Over TUSC DP/P2 BoP - Sportscar365 BHW
hopefully IMSA sees the handwriting on the wall, otherwise in 2017 America will be an irrelevant stepchild to global sports car racing.
IMSA is now under the thumb of NASCAR/ISC. There ain't no one there voicing any concern lest they're booted out. The 900lb gorilla on the block just gets stronger. BHW
Read how the Speed TV (FOX Sports) announcers glow about the TUSC. Also, how there is not one comment following them up in the space provided. Go ahead, try to post a comment and see how far it goes. It's easy to see who's paying these guy's salaries. FOX Sports 1 Announcers Reflect On First Three TUDOR Championship Races | FOX Sports on MSN BHW
I doubt it was that "affordable." Racing above the club level is hideously expensive if you are trying to win.
the number I gave is reasonably accurate to be clear, that $5mm was running cost to do the season (entry fees, consumables, travel, etc), not to buy the car and equipment. it was also for ALMS so it didn't include any 24 hour races.
you missed my point. ACO is setting the specs for LMP for 2017, FIA and ACO are setting the specs for GT convergence, believed to be adopted along the lines of GT3 specs for both sprint and endurance (ACO) series. so if NASCAR/IMSA doesn't play along with the FIA and ACO, they'll be the only global sports car series without a standardized spec. they have already thumbed their nose at the ACO with their DP bias, and some of the P2 restrictions/regulations; and with their creating separate GTD spec instead of adopting FIA GT3 as-is. if IMSA doesn't fall in line with the ACO/FIA specs, I don't see any manufacturer other than Ford and Chevy willing to play along, in any class....so while Ford vs Chevy might play along with the NASCAR narrative, it would kill US sports car racing. I also wouldn't see any privateer/gentlemen driver teams (OAK, Aston Martin, etc) wanting to do anything in the US either.
Well, IMSA/NASCAR thumb their noses at the ACO/FIA and they do so at their own peril. At the rate things are sliding currently, the landscape is going to be completely different in the U.S. by 2017. Funny, how there used to be mention of the ACO including DP cars into the 24 Hours and how all that talk has vanished. I, for one, would like to see DP cars compete at Le Mans if for the only reason to have the P-1 and P-2 cars hand them their lunch. However, the ACO risks tarnishing their brand by allowing DP to take part so they walk a fine line. BHW
And no crash damage, and no serious testing, inventory of spares, and... So yeah you can run for that. Kind of. It's quite expensive either way, but I think you are fairly optimistic. Heck Conti tire cars in GS are using a lot of shaker rig time now.
