EPA proposes to ban conversion of street cars into race cars?!? | FerrariChat

EPA proposes to ban conversion of street cars into race cars?!?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by nathandarby67, Feb 9, 2016.

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  1. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Hate to bring any P&R into the racing subforums, but the WRL posted a link to this SEMA article this morning. In a nutshell, new EPA regulations proposed to go into effect this summer will prohibit the conversion of any vehicle originally designed for street use into a race car. I just can't fathom that this could be true...has anyone else heard anything about this? This could essentially kill most forms of amateur racing and a significant portion of professional racing as we know it.

    So many questions. Would existing race cars be grandfathered in? Could you convert a new car if you left all emissions equipment intact (I'm assuming the wording of the regulation has to do with altering emissions equipment)? What about professional teams that buy production based race cars direct from the manufacturers? What are the actual chances of this insanity becoming law?

    https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08/epa-seeks-to-prohibit-conversion-of-vehicles-into-racecars


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  2. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

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    So without due process, the government will deprive citizens of the right to modify or alter their own property? It'll never fly, Orville.
     
  3. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #3 GrigioGuy, Feb 9, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The regulation has already passed the comment period. Unless Congress or a judge intervenes, my understanding is that the regulation will take effect.

    What they are actually doing is prohibiting any changes to the emissions of a certified vehicle, even if the vehicle isn't used on a public road. While the EPA (probably) won't come after the owner, this closes the "off-road use only" loophole for cat delete and other emissions-changing equipment so that manufacturers cannot sell them anymore.

    At least, that's my understanding.

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-07-13/pdf/2015-15500.pdf
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  4. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    How on earth did this not get more coverage before now? What all could be included in this besides cat-delete pipes?

    Also, I wonder if this regulation would be retroactive for older cars already converted? "If a motor vehicle is covered by a certificate of conformity at any point, there is no exemption..."

    That sounds pretty damn broad to me, and doesn't necessarily rule out vehicles already modified.


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  5. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    haven't read the legislation but my guess is *anything* that modifies the car from how it leaves the factory is now prohibited...intakes, ECU tunes, etc etc.

    I guess we're about to see how good the aftermarket's lobbyists are...
     
  6. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    my other big question about this (again, not wanting to wade through the legalese of EPA legislations) is how they define "originally designed for street use".

    does this in effect ban any GT race car? from SCCA showroom all the way through Porsche Cup Cars, Ferrari Challenge, and GT3/GTLM type cars....even the ones that leave the factory as race cars?

    if that is true you can bet NASCAR/IMSA is going to go loco.
     
  7. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Excellent point, and one of the big things I was worried about. You worded it a lot better than me! Outlawing selling of cat delete pipes is one thing, saying you can't modify any car to any degree is quite another.

    Do current factory race cars have to meet emissions regulations? Think Ferrari challenge, Miata cup cars, etc.


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  8. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    they don't have to meet emissions regulations currently (as not sold for road use) and AFAIK none of them have catalysts.
     
  9. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks, I've never shopped for one so wasn't sure!

    So...is it time yet to beat our test pipes into swords and our intake manifolds into spears?


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  10. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

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    I am not surprised. Tracks are regulating sound. Emissions are next on the list for racetracks. Even mighty Ferrari is turbocharging engines to comply with emission regulations.
     
  11. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I suppose that since many states do not emissions test older cars (25+ years old in Georgia, for instance), those cars could probably still be modified.
     
  12. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    tracks are only regulating sound because they have to-NIMBY crowd complains to politicians who then write ordinances. I'm not aware of any race track voluntarily doing sound limits.
     
  13. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    It got through because the EPA hid it within a proposal for Medium and Heavy Duty Engines and Vehicles . So, light duty (e.g. cars) would not apply.
     
  14. Jasone

    Jasone Formula 3
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    This is some crazy stuff. I hope SEMA is able to make headway on this.
     
  15. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Glad SEMA seems to be taking the lead in opposition to this. I'm sure car enthusiasts of all types will gladly write their Congressmen about the over-reaching nature of this legislation.

    Who knows what other unintended economic consequences this regulation will cause to the salvage title car market and demolition derby entertainment.
     
  16. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

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    Several race tracks do. For example, Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca has a decibel limit of 92dB.
     
  17. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    State emission testing does not override federal regulation. While your state may not be testing, it is still a federal crime for a garage or mechanic to remove a certified emission device.
     
  18. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    But it's not voluntary, they're doing it because they've been regulated/legislated to do that.
     
  19. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    My read, its essentialy a regulation to stop the aftermarket from making or selling parts for newer model cars, that say for off road or racing use only.

    Ie putting a large number of sema members out of buisness.
     
  20. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    Talk about missing the issue. Why aren't they concentrating on the gas guzzling SUV/light trucks that make up 21% of annual sales and their ilk rather than the less than 1% that race their cars. Especially when you consider that racing cars are only raced x weekends of the year where-as SUV are used for the daily commute etc.

    This is less a right/ left issue and more just a stupidity issue.
     
  21. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Seems like everything these days is the fault of Global Warming.
     
  22. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Maximum cost, minimum benefit.

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  23. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Good info in the Jalopnik article below. Apparently the EPA has confirmed to SEMA and Jalopnik that they do indeed plan to make converting a street car illegal. Their stance is that it has ALWAYS been illegal, they are just now "clarifying" that rule. Then they go on to say that they don't really plan to enforce the new rule right away, that they have always just sort of looked the other way when it comes to race cars, and that maybe they will continue to look the other way in the future.

    So why the need for "clarification"? There are provisions for penalties of $37,500 for EACH piece of emissions equipment tampered with. Seriously, how insane is this?? They are telling you on one hand that modifying your car could potentially cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines, but on the other hand saying "but don't worry too much, because we probably won't enforce it." I trust the EPA about as far as I can throw them.

    I don't want to get too P&R here (there is a separate thread there), but this is exactly what a bloated, out of control government looks like.

    The EPA's Crackdown On Race Cars, Explained
     
  24. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Its not about race cars. Its about preventing the manufacture and instalation of parts that are "for racing only" being put on street cars. This is probably 50% of semas buisness. Same thing happened with motorcycles in Cali and pipes.
     
  25. nathandarby67

    nathandarby67 F1 Veteran
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    Then why not just step up enforcement of existing laws for street cars? Maybe with more thorough annual inspections? That is something very few people would oppose. Sounds like they want to ban the production of these parts altogether. Why would they even mention the conversion of street cars to race-only cars as being illegal if they just want to make sure these parts aren't used in street cars?
     

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