hi, i am not sure if this is allowed to be posted here. Please delete if it is an offense Nowhere to get my questions answered in the real world so i am here to give it a try. I bought my 360 challenge car and was kinda hooked up to tracks. I am not looking for a racing career because of my age and daily duties. So , to get to the point, I want to have a formula car just for fun. last year i went to UK to buy a formula 1 chassis and hope I can get a Judd engine installed professionally , but that mission failed because I was denied entry to UK. they ask me how long you are going to stay and my answer is: I don't know, depends on how soon they can assemble a car for me. total disaster. anyway, Basically, I have my own team of mechanics but none of them is familiar with formula cars. I have an engineering background and I believe I can do 100% of maintenance and things if I was gifted with a service manual, provided parts are readily available. After all, its just mechanically and electronically engineered , not some sort of rocket science. Question is, considering parts availability, price, joy, etc, what formula car should I buy? I've only seen formula masters, formula renault cars locally here in Shanghai and they are not for sale.
Japanese F3000 or Formula Nippon? seems there should be a big supply in Asia, of both cars and parts, and it's a very quick car but a fraction of the expense and headache of running an F1 car. another option might be an early 2000's IndyCar/Champ Car but not sure how engine/spares support would work in Asia. same with Toyota Atlantics or Indy Lights.
If just for fun, I'd probably consider a mid-range car with wings e.g, FF2000 / Formula Continental / F3. Open wheel cars take some adjusting to if coming out of a normal car, and the light aero will acclimate you to the more prominent aero of higher speed cars (FA / FM / F3000 / IndyCar / F1. FF2000 cars will run 130-140 or so, accelerate quick, and they are ubiquitous. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get an equivalent in Shanghai. Far more experienced people here than I am, just my 2 cents. While I think jumping to a F1 car with a Judd engine is cool, it might take a bit of time to adjust to the performance envelope of a car like that.
thanks for your response, i am stilling thinking of getting an F1 chassis and put a lower level engine in it. any hidden cost in doing that? price wise, a used f1 chassis isn't significantly more expensive than lower class cars such as the formula renault. sometimes its as cheap as US $80,000
Before picking a car you need to answer these questions: Where do you plan to run the car? And with whom? That is: SCCA races, NASA, HSR or just track days, like Chin or "on your own". Do you want to "track it" or race it? That is do you want to compete against others with similar performance cars or just run against the "clock". Do you belong to a motorsports club/country club like AMP? Do you plan on trailering the thing around as needed or want to keep it at one facility? How important is easily available parts to you? What do you expect to spend as a budget, per day or weekend? Honest answers to all of this will help get you in the right car. Going at it in a random fashion will lead to misery. PS: I have lots and lots of experience and knowledge in this area. Check out my details....
If this would be your first exposure into a formula car platform, and it sounds like perhaps your first adventure with a "real" race car, I echo the comments above and would go simple and basic - an F2000 car is a great learning platform, for driver and team. "Spare parts" for leading edge race cars (eg. F1) do not exist, and even if you have the drawings, are painfully expensive to replace. I'd also suggest that buying a "cheap tub" is a recipe for disaster, as these cars are very sensitive to things like engine/gearbox/suspension/just about everything. Some of the older US IndyCars are still around, and Cosworth can and will support older engines....at a price. When you bend (or, more likely, the part times out) a suspension piece, you'll be waiting a while to find/fabricate a replacement. A current/recent spec F2000 car has decent supply, a good database and a competent race shop can help you along. A Star Mazda is also a hotter option that is pretty supportable. I have several friends who use Star Mazda (now Pro Mazda) cars for track days in the US. Again, good advice above about getting a car where there is some local parts supply, good working knowledge of the car, and competent support. Believe me, you probably want to be careful about getting into a car like that and have a clue about the setup; a snap spin at decent speed is likely to lead to disappointment If you have the money, do Ferrari F1 Clienti. They handle the car, the spares, the support and the driver development. If you ever attend a Historic F1 race, you'd be impressed by how much pure labor and expertise (and expense) goes into keeping even the older cars going, let alone the more modern ones. ^^ last comment; above the most basic, old school formula ford, my advice for a formula car is to start with finding the right support structure (for car and driver), and THEN pick a platform based on supportability and budget
there's a man in zhuhai track that can make customized formula seats for something like $1000 each, is that what you mean?
I have been looking at the Tatuus F4 or the USF2000 car with the Mazda engine for under $80K USD. I like the Abarth version. http://tatuus.it/ Unique USF2000 sidepods, engine cover, front and rear wing end plates, nose cone and front cover combine to form an aero package that includes carbon composite wings with adjustable twin-element rear wing and a carbon composite diffuser. The rolling chassis is priced at $51,800, which is significantly less than the current USF2000 car.
I just read your response again, very informative. I still was obsessed with the idea that I, myself, as the brain, with a few helping hands(mechanics) can do the full maintenance and support of the car, whatever car it is. I might be over confident, but if I fail, just let me fail. its part of life. Seriously, being able to support the car myself is more than 50% of the fun. Now it only comes down to parts availability and the electronics things (I saw a formula renault technician was holding some sort of a computer hooked up to the car and did some adjustment and stuff. Not quite sure what he's doing.) If I go for a f3000/gp2 car, where can I get parts in the US/Europe? formula nippon cars are seldom seen here, let alone parts.
Here are my thoughts 1.) Buy a new, in current production car. One that has 3-4 or more years of production still to come. 2.) Do not buy a used, older race car if you can help it. You will always have issues with parts, repair, etc. 3.) You want a car you can bring to track, unload it, start it up and drive. No complex bits or set up requirements. You do not want something that takes an engineer, data guy and 4 mechanics to get running right every time you go out. Keep it simple. 4.) A new F4 car-from Tatuus in Italy would be a good car. Not too expensive or powerful but a very modern car with great handling, etc. Lower cost and very low operating costs and support required for it. 5.) Another car would be the Mygale F4 car. It has the advantage of that car being the one used in the Asian F4 series. (The Tatuus F4 is used more in Europe). So there will be a good supply of cars and parts and support of these cars in Asia. There is an Asian F4 series and a Chinese F4 Series so this car makes a lot of sense for you. Here is website for Chinese F4 series. F4??_F4?? - CFGP???????????? China Formula Grand Prix www.cfgp.cc I know you are not interested in actual racing of the car-But having a car that is brand new, used as the new FIA open wheel race car as the standard around the world means you have a car that will be well supported in parts and service. Here is website for Mygale F4 car: Formula 4 - Mygale Cars Now 160 hp may not seem like much but with the car weighing around 500 kg or so it is well quick. The laptimes it will turn will be faster than any Ferrari/Lambo-outside of maybe a LaFerrari. Trust me it will be so fast it will scare you quite a lot starting out. Good aero, good brakes, paddle shift, etc. All the stuff that an F1 car has. Here is website address for an owners manual: http://usf4.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Mygale-M14-F4-Ford-User-Manual-V1.4-MSA-Formula4.pdf Now if it was me I would also look at a Norma/Ligier CN Sports Prototype car. They look like smaller LMP1 cars, have 230+ hp, are very fast and fun and our 2 seaters-so you can put a passenger in it while you drive! I know you said open wheel but you may want to look at one of those cars also. They would also be a bit safer in the end. One thing not mentioned was whether you would be only car on track when you ran it. If you are out there with other cars you DO NOT EVER want to be in an open wheeler if there are any type of production cars running same time. If you get in an accident with a GT type car while you are in your open wheeler you will very likely wind up dead-or hurt pretty well. They just do not mix. The Norma is better but still not a very good idea at all. Just think about that before making a decision. If you need more info-please just ask!!
I think the most bang for your buck would be a retired Indycar with a small block Chevy engine. There are a number of these cars still around, and they are being raced relatively economically in various events in the US. F1 cars are certainly something special, but you can run an Indycar with similar performance for a fraction of the cost. Just a note of caution that going from a sports car (even a Ferrari) to a formula car is a big step. I would recommend getting some professional training before driving one. There's a gentleman in Missouri that sells vintage race cars. He will ship worldwide. Better to get a car that's complete and ready to race, or you can spend a lot of time (years) trying to put one together. Can-Am Cars | Welcome to Can-Am Cars LTD
The way you make a racing seat is to get some 2 part foam mix from a hardware store. Pour the foam into a plastic garbage bag. Place the bag in the car's tub. Now you sit in the car with the bag under your butt, and behind your back. Sit in your driving position suspended by your arms until the foam hardens. Trim the excess with a hack saw blade. Should cost less than $20.
oh my goodness, i have to say , that the f4 manual is priceless for me! I can't express how helpful that pdf means to me! my understanding of single seat open wheel cars stepped up to another level! now im going to change my signiture to "i don't buy cars that I can't service myself Question raised: the website you gave me , it seems to be the chassis manufacture, can I buy a new F4 directly from them? Other single seaters more or less can be bought the same way? In my local track, there's an official office of the F4 organizers. Last time I asked them "can I buy a f4 car from you", they say you can't buy it unless you participate in the racing.
is indy car suitable for cuicuit driving other than ovals? I was told the brake aren't as good as other formulas? I have no idea
24,000 RPM You can buy any F4 car from any mfg directly. You do not have to race it in any series if you do not want to. E-mail Mygale directly and tell them you want to buy their new F4 car. You can tell them it is for a track day car but they will not care where you race it. They may tell you that they have a distributor in China to go thru. If so-then you will be required to go thru them. In any case it should be very easy for you to buy the car, and spares, etc without any issues or difficulties. I would stay away from an old Indy car or Can Am car. Ask yourself this question--I need a new set of tires. Just where in China are you going to find them? You will need to order them from the USA or the UK and have them shipped to you. You have just doubled or tripled the price of the tires and add 4-6 weeks in shipping time. With the F4 car there will be -what- 3, 4, 6 or more places/teams/companies in China that will have them in stock. Same thing with body work, gears, brakes, wishbones, etc. Also their will be a lot of other people in China racing and maintaining the Mygale F4 car. So there will be a ready source of expertise you can get access to. Just how much expertise in China is there on an old Indy car or Can Am car. Stick with the F4-learn the car, learn how to drive the car. Then, if you want a more powerful car-then buy an old Indy car or something. But only after you are ready, after you have mechanics skilled in race cars, have the infrastructure to support that type of car. And you also have a ready customer base in China who would buy a used Mygale F4 car.
