Prototype GTE warning from Ferrari | FerrariChat

Prototype GTE warning from Ferrari

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by william, Nov 23, 2016.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    Ferrari GT Racing director Antonello Coletta

    ‘Prototype’ GTE warning


    Coletta [also] warned of a rising trend in the GTE ranks of manufacturers entering cars designed first and foremost for racing, rather than converting an established road car into a race-eligible machine.

    He said championship organisers should impose "very strict rules" that are "equal for everyone".

    The Italian’s remarks are clearly aimed at the Ford GT, which was allowed into the championship this season despite production having yet to commence on the American supercar, while Porsche is re-entering the class as a works team in 2017 with a mid-engined 911 RSR not directly derived from a road car.

    “We have read the rules, we have interpreted,” said Coletta. “Using the base of our 488 road car we started our work, making it competitive for racing.

    “Others have made prototypes, and today we are still waiting to see the minimum number of road cars being produced. Others have said they have made a car you will never see on the road.

    “Something is not working. It’s time to sit around the table and establish a set of very strict rules. It’s good to have new manufacturers, but the rules must be equal for everyone.

    "It is clear we cannot remain passive when others arrive with cars that are distorted or are very different to how they should be.”

    WEC: Ferrari says BoP didn?t allow fight on equal terms with Aston Martin
     
  2. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    :)

    Development of a 488 based prototype....just wait and see
     
  3. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    13,609
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    yap..what a farse series....if they want prototypes racing, then Ferrari and Poprsche will destroy everyone else....
     
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447

    This statement from Ferrari (Coletta) contradicts what has been said on the other thread about the other constructors accepting the Ford GT without a protest.

    Ford opened a breach in the rules, Porsche is following it seems, so what next?

    I think the ACO opened a Pandora box and will have difficulties to regulate the category in future.
     
  5. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    Ford breached the rules but....ACO is responsible and gave them a waiver; I can't blame Ford
    Porsche is different, have made enough cars and rules say: you can put engine wherever you like (rear of the driver) Mid engine is allowed.
    For Aston is it not possible: engine in front must stay in front of the driver.

    Strange to me: why complain AFTER?
    Or maybe they did but not in public or ACO told the press..
     
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    Of course I blame the ACO first for not policing the championship as it should have done.

    Now that its car is homologated, Ford can drag its feet for ever and never produce the car in numbers.

    As for Porsche, switching from rear to central engine is an interpretation of the rules that should have been challenged. Of course Porsche can have a large diffuser at the back now, and improve its down force considerably to match the other cars.

    Aston is in trouble. Chevrolet will launch a mid-engine Corvette within a few years.

    I am wondering what Ferrari will come out with.
     
  7. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    [QUOTE I am wondering what Ferrari will come out with.[/QUOTE]

    A few people here on Fchat might know...best source: Peter Mann
     
  8. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2007
    10,254
    Chicagoland USA
    Full Name:
    Tom Tanner
    Well like it or not it is making GT racing a lot more interesting. They are also getting more press. Can't wait to see what Ferrari comes up with.
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    They can change the rules if they want, but everybody must be on equal footing; 2016 has been far from that in the WEC.

    I still can't understand why the ACO doesn't simply adopt the GT3 regulations.
    On some track, the GT3 s are faster than the GTE.

    Prices of GT3s start at £300,000. For a GTE, you have to fork out up to £800,000. That's more expensive than a LMP2 !!!

    Some teams have deserted GTE to go to GT3, more will follow.
     
  10. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    Strakka (ex LMP2) bought/leased FOUR McLarens GT3!
    You need more than 2 cars to be successful in Blancpain GT nowadays imho

    Ferrari needs to factory back (with drivers) at least two teams in Pro: AF Corse and Rinaldi; 4 cars in total but that will not happen.
    Like Audi did with WRT and Phoenix (both full factory support)
     
  11. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,370
    Texas!
    My response to Ferrari? Strap it on, baby. Let's rumble.
     
  12. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2004
    971
    Lucerne
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Bc maybe you got another info from the manufacturer in the beginning or you where told differently by the ACO in terms of BoP?

    What u read or hear must not be the real story. Lots lots of discussion ongoing behind closed doors.
     
  13. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    You have a PM! :)
     
  14. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2004
    971
    Lucerne
    Full Name:
    Chris
    GT3 was invented by Stephane Ratel and GTE is ACO's baby. just two kids from different parents who doesnt like each other very well... ACO tried to compete with SRO by launching the Michelin GT3 Cup but Blancpain is the place to be if you race with GT3.

    the initial idea was (or still is) GTE is the GT Racing plattform for the manufacturer, GT3 for the Customer Teams. Now more and more factory support is seeing in GT3 but still, official just 2 real factory teams are acting in the Blancpain (Bentley M Sport and Nissan) the rest is with more or less factory support. Lets see in 2018 with Audi maybe bring more of their previous LMP Squad into the SRO Series.

    and to develop an existing street car into a proper GTE contender needs more effort instead of building a prototype like a LMP2 from scratch. You cant compare the two different approach from a price perspective. and for the cost of the season, its not a huge different if the initial costs of the car are 500 or 800K as its anyway factory sport.

    GT3's are great cars but you can't compare it to a GT2 (GTE) I raced both models of the 458 and its a different planet. yes on some tracks the GT3 is faster but thats just of the BoP, let the GTE race without any restrictors and it will be faster than his more civilized GT3 Sister. considering that a 458 GTE is doing almost the same laptimes with 100hp less than the GT3!

    the GT3 was made for Gent Racers versus the GTE is a real PRO Car, not easy to be fast with as you gain the advantage via the Aero.

    I always liked the GTE Category, you can see so many fantastic details and still based (somewhere) on a road car.
     
  15. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2004
    971
    Lucerne
    Full Name:
    Chris
    thank you, just saw it :)
     
  16. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2004
    7,667
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bruce Bogart
    Wasn't the shoe on the other foot in the 60's?
     
  17. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    #17 william, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
    Yes, GTE and GT3 are 2 different animals.

    For a start, GT3s race among themselves, where GTE share the track with other categories (I will later come back on that), and the philosophy is different.

    GT3s are modified street GTs, and most of the championships are geared to have amateurs and professional drivers. Because it's more affordable, the GT3 grids can have up to 60 cars.

    The GT3 category is more widespread in many championship, national series, etc... (Blancpain, ADAC Masters, French GT, British GT, VLN, Creventic, Dutch Challenge, etc...) So, constructors have a big market to supply, and there is a large variety of cars to chose from: Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche, Lamborghini, Mercedes, Audi, Corvette, Bentley, Aston Martin, BMW, etc... even Morgan !)
    The BOP ensure that cars are more or less evenly matched.

    In GTE, the category share the track with LMP1 and 2, or LMP2 and 3, and are squeezed on the entry list. GTE is the junior category in WEC, and I have rarely seen more than 20 GTE cars in any one race, and that is divided between Am and Pro, and the 4 regular makes: Ferrari, Aston, Porsche and Corvette.

    The ACO want its GTE to be different from the GT3, by allowing making mechanical and body alterations, enhance aero, etc.... But at the same time, the ACO doesn't want a GTE to run faster than a LMP3 or worse a LMP2. Hence the problem. Whilst the cars are built for speed, and allowed some technical freedom, in some way, they are restricted not to run faster than the LMPs. That's were it doesn't work. It's an anachronism.

    In GT3, the modifications from a road car are minimal, and the research, development and testing is spread over many cars. For example, I guess there are 100+ Ferrari 488 racing in the world, between the different series in Europe, in America and Asia, it must be the same for the Porsche 911, the Audi R8, etc... GT3 is a huge global market. So a GT3 is affordable (in racing terms that is).

    A GTE car can only race in ACO-managed series. Le Mans, ELMS, ALMS. There isn't a big market for them; that's why they are so expensive. Mostly only factory teams can afford them, or factories racing by proxy through supported teams racing : AF Corse, Olaf Manthey, Prodrive, etc... A GTE costs more than a LMP2 which is cost-capped. Each year, only a handful of GTE are built compared to GT3.

    To save cost, Aston Martin built only 5 cars one year, recycling some chassis from the previous year, and last year cars become eligible for GTE-Am anyway. It's the same for Corvette Racing.

    Unlike you, I cannot comment on the driving aspect, but I suspect it's completely different.
    I gather that racing in GT3 among other GT3s, is a lot easier than driving a GTE, where being the slower category in a race you certainly spend most of the time looking in your mirrors, not be on the LMP racing line and blocking their progress.

    The speed differences, the corner trajectories are completely different between the categories, and in a long distance race, a GTE must be overtaken hundreds of time byLMPs. That itself must be unnerving. There are many racing incident because of that mix of cars from different categories, and it's not unusual to see a LMP taken off by a "clumsy" GTE driver.

    It's a great pity in my book, that the 2 main GT racing organisations haven't managed to harmonise the rules, saving $ millions, and allowing teams and drivers to taste both.
     
  18. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,273
    If the above text is true, i find it very correct.
     
  19. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,370
    Texas!
    Come on guys. Ford, Ferrari and Porsche on the same track, priceless.
     
  20. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann
    Ford opened a breach? Let's look at what they did: they built a show car (road going) that 2 years later no one has seen on the road, claiming that the minimum number of cars have been built, they then invested some $50m to build a racing car with a view to winning Le Mans. They then sandbagged the ACO all through the first WEC races and Le Mans practice and once that practice was over went 3 seconds per lap quicker...
    Now Porsche have built a car that is not even of a similar architecture to the road car it is supposedly derived from....

    The breach? Cheating because they know they can get away with it given the money invested...
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    25,447
    Indeed, I agree with you.
     
  22. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    I think Ferrari will manufacture a 488 Prototype for 2017/2018 more like the Porsche GTE
    At least huge modification to current 488 GTE.

    Just wait and see
     
  23. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I mean, they've built more than the minimum required of LaF's. If they want to stomp the class they just need to build up half a dozen of those conforming to GTE rules, sandbag at the start of the season and then trounce Ford at LeMans.
     
  24. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,701
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    Minimum is 1000 road cars
     
  25. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
    6,367
    Richmond
    Full Name:
    Pete
    100 for large manufacturers and 25 for small (under 2000 cars per year) I thought?
     

Share This Page