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  #501  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by joker57676 View Post
I am always excited to see the top class go at it, but that enthusiasm is then tamped down by the lack of participants.



Mark
Agreed!
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  #502  
Old 06-19-2017, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post

I watched the No. 7 Toyota, on TV, putter to a permanent halt and it is criminal that they do not have a means to get the car back to the pits. Yes I know the clutch failed (apparently) but I do hope when they design their 2018 car they ensure that the car can ALWAYS do a slow lap and get back to the pits so it can be fixed. Heck put a separate battery and electric motor in the car driving one front wheel just for this purpose or something!
Pete

I consider clutch failure as a major breakdown on a vehicle; if it let go during a lap, it's terminal. Period.

Therefore I cannot see why Toyota should get a pass, or have its car retrieved on the track to be repaired and continue the race.

They should design their next car with a clutch that can take the punishment, IMO.
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  #503  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:24 AM
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Toyota President apologises to fans drivers and team after le mans heartbreak (Apology letter)

https://wtf1.com/post/toyota-preside...ns-heartbreak/
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  #504  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:27 AM
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Still the only Japanese manufacture to win Le Mans

Still the only Japanese manufacture to win Le Mans
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  #505  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:30 AM
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Jackie Chan compares winning Le Mans to receiving Oscar

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...-oscar-920284/
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  #506  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:33 AM
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Aston chief says GTE-Pro decider was “do or die” moment

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...n-adam-920236/
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  #507  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:37 AM
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Corvette team “can’t feel bad” despite last-lap defeat

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...defeat-920229/
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  #508  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post

I watched the No. 7 Toyota, on TV, putter to a permanent halt and it is criminal that they do not have a means to get the car back to the pits. Yes I know the clutch failed (apparently) but I do hope when they design their 2018 car they ensure that the car can ALWAYS do a slow lap and get back to the pits so it can be fixed. Heck put a separate battery and electric motor in the car driving one front wheel just for this purpose or something!
Pete
Actually they made a full lap in electric mode at Spa last year when an engine broke down, but this time they came from a safety car period and couldn´t charge the batteries. Also Spa is shorter than Le Mans.

Anyway, talking is cheap: doing what you propose and dealing with the extra space and weight is probably a lot harder than doing a clutch that doesn´t break.
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  #509  
Old 06-19-2017, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william View Post
I consider clutch failure as a major breakdown on a vehicle; if it let go during a lap, it's terminal. Period.

Therefore I cannot see why Toyota should get a pass, or have its car retrieved on the track to be repaired and continue the race.

They should design their next car with a clutch that can take the punishment, IMO.
In 1965 the 250LM had its gearbox rebuilt and went on to win the race, so Toyota could have replaced the clutch and gone on to win ... ??
Pete
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  #510  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by WILLIAM H View Post
Ferrari did same thing w the 512s & 512M in the 70s & the 250LM as well
Good pernt...... :lightbulb:
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  #511  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
In 1965 the 250LM had its gearbox rebuilt and went on to win the race, so Toyota could have replaced the clutch and gone on to win ... ??
Pete
FIA World Endurance Championship Sporting Regulation 10.8.6 (paraphrased but accurate):

During the race it is prohibited to change:

- The engine block or any of it's main external components (fixed to one another by means of seals)

- The main gearbox and differential housings
(the innerds may be changed)

- The chassis or monocoque structure

Thus, I surmise clutch replacement is acceptable.

Last edited by lorenzobandini; 06-19-2017 at 03:50 AM.
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  #512  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
In 1965 the 250LM had its gearbox rebuilt and went on to win the race, so Toyota could have replaced the clutch and gone on to win ... ??
Pete
You can only rebuild a gearbox or change a clutch if the driver is able to bring the car back to the pits under its own power.

If the car is stranded on the other side of the circuit, it's terminal.
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  #513  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william View Post
You can only rebuild a gearbox or change a clutch if the driver is able to bring the car back to the pits under its own power.

If the car is stranded on the other side of the circuit, it's terminal.
Absolutely.
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  #514  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzobandini View Post
FIA World Endurance Championship Sporting Regulation 10.8.6 (paraphrased but accurate):

During the race it is prohibited to change:

- The engine block or any of it's main external components (fixed to one another by means of seals)

- The main gearbox and differential housings
(the innerds may be changed)

- The chassis or monocoque structure[/b]

Thus, I surmise clutch replacement is acceptable.

The issue is not about the clutch replacement, which is perfectly acceptable, but the fact that the car was apparently unable to reach the pits for the repair.
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  #515  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:54 AM
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Understood. And the issue arose as PSK suggested Toyota add an additional drive to bring it home. Followed by your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by william View Post
I consider clutch failure as a major breakdown on a vehicle; if it let go during a lap, it's terminal. Period.

Therefore I cannot see why Toyota should get a pass, or have its car retrieved on the track to be repaired and continue the race.

They should design their next car with a clutch that can take the punishment, IMO.
It's not terminal to the FIA was my point. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Last edited by lorenzobandini; 06-19-2017 at 04:10 AM.
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  #516  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:44 AM
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My thought at the time was, if the teams are not allowed to replace the IC motor, why are they
then allowed to change the hybrid?

There was a time in IMSA during the GTX days in the mid 70s to the early 80s when teams could change their motors during the race at Daytona or Sebring and did so regularly. It may have been the same at Le Mans, not really sure.

It was always amazing to watch though as the teams would carry out these changes right on the pit lane. I remember one year watching the Whittington Brothers' team carrying out an engine swap on their 935 at Daytona, it was like a Chinese fire drill compared to today but interesting to watch none the less.

Suddenly, that rule changed and changing engines in-race was banned.

BHW
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  #517  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BartonWorkman View Post
My thought at the time was, if the teams are not allowed to replace the IC motor, why are they
then allowed to change the hybrid?

There was a time in IMSA during the GTX days in the mid 70s to the early 80s when teams could change their motors during the race at Daytona or Sebring and did so regularly. It may have been the same at Le Mans, not really sure.

It was always amazing to watch though as the teams would carry out these changes right on the pit lane. I remember one year watching the Whittington Brothers' team carrying out an engine swap on their 935 at Daytona, it was like a Chinese fire drill compared to today but interesting to watch none the less.

Suddenly, that rule changed and changing engines in-race was banned.

BHW
Engine change were never allowed at Le Mans, as far as I know.
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  #518  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:27 AM
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F1 and Le Mans partner to avoid date clashes

F1 CEO Chase Carey was the honorary starter at Le Mans on Saturday and his presence was on obvious sign of cooperation between the 24-hour event and Formula 1.

It was a well-known fact that Bernie Ecclestone was no fan of the endurance classic which in his view only drew attention away from F1.

Le Mans often clashed with a Grand Prix during the Ecclestone era and indeed the former F1 supremo probably deliberately engineered overlapping dates.

The arrival of Liberty Media at the helm has now opened up a period of collaboration between F1 and the World Endurance Championship, according to ACO (Automobile Club de l'Ouest) boss Pierre Fillon.


"We are demonstrating the new relationship between the ACO and Formula One," said Fillon.

"With Chase Carey at the top of F1, the time has come to work together on a motor sport calendar that allows fans to enjoy both Formula 1 and the races of the world endurance championship."

Renault's Nico Hulkenberg won the 24-hour epic with Porsche in 2015 and would have loved to go back last year, but the race clashed with Azerbaijan's maiden Grand Prix at Baku.


"At the moment, I don't think I am missing participating in Le Mans," Hulkenberg told Firstpost.

"I am focused on the Renault project and I would like to give this my best shot in the next few years. For the future, who knows?"

Both Fernando Alonso and Romain Grosjean have also expressed their desire to race at Le Mans one day

Formula 1 and Le Mans partner to avoid date clashes
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  #519  
Old 06-19-2017, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william View Post
Engine change were never allowed at Le Mans, as far as I know.
I think you're right.

This year's race reminded me a bit of 1977 when there was likewise a hot race.

With the Porsche-Renault war at an all time high, Renault brought four entires versus
two from Porsche.

With the race barely underway, the second Porsche 936 of Barth and Haywood had a
stuck turbo waste gate with Hurley reporting to the team that the car was "too fast".
The team brought the car in to replace the turbo system dropping the entry down to
the bottom of the order by the time it rejoined.

The lead Porsche expired and the team put Ickx into the car for his epic night stint when he
chased down the lead Renaults which one by one began to expire as the Alpine Spiders were
fast but fragile.

Even through Ickx brought the Porsche back to the lead, there was still drama near the end
when the team had to shut down one of the cylinders in order to get the car to the finish.

This year's race somewhat resembled 1977 in a lot of ways.

BHW
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  #520  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:23 AM
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Read this (sorry only german, but translate it please)

Irre: Verkleideter "Streckenposten" kostet Toyota den Sieg! - 24 Stunden von Le Mans, WEC - WEC bei Motorsport-Total.com
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