Is "racing" just an outdated concept? | FerrariChat

Is "racing" just an outdated concept?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Igor Ound, Mar 28, 2017.

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  1. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    With motorsport always in a fight to retain its viewers and other forms of racing not faring that much better, is it just that racing is not an as attractive and relevant concept anymore?

    In a sport so connected to technology, have recent developments made physical speed finally irrelevant?

    Just a thought.
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Not to get too P&R...the real reason is the wimpification of the American male. Beating other people at anything is being socialized out of our population. The concept of man as an apex predator is lost. There will always be men...just fewer of them than in the past.
     
  3. Hollywood-GP

    Hollywood-GP Karting

    Jun 15, 2015
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    I think the younger generation sees driving as a chore
     
  4. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

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    Even in the army being fast in a machine is gradually being replaced with being stealth, autonomous or being digitally fast.

    Maybe it's just human evolution? As with being physically strong not as important as it used to be in the ancient times?
     
  5. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Looking at the amount of manufactures currently taking part in racing activities around
    the world (in all levels) and many stating their long-term plans and budgets to continue
    racing, it's fairly obvious that manufacturers still see racing as relevant and important
    to continued development and marketing.

    Case in point are the amount of manufactures taking part in the IMSA GTLM and GTD
    categories currently. In my lifetime (at least) I do not recall ever seeing this many manufacturers
    committing to GT racing. And, they're not just dipping their toes in the water, they're coming
    with long-term plans backed by their corporate boards.

    Taking sports car and endurance racing as a further example, what the manufacturers are
    learning in racing is not so much about speed, they know they may all go fast (only concern
    being BoP), but reliability is so much better now. Much of that is related to modern electronics
    which allows the teams to monitor the cars in real time and if there is any issue, they may
    get the car into the pits for repair resulting in an incredible amount of cars making it to the
    finish.

    If you look at results these days versus thirty/forty-plus years ago, what is really interesting is
    how in a top sports car race such as Le Mans or Sebring, there will be fifty-plus taking the
    green flag and forty-plus seeing the checkers.

    Compared to what many point to as racings "glory days", when a similar amount of cars
    would take the start and literally there would be eight or ten cars actually finishing with GT
    and GTU cars coming in as high as fourth and fifth overall (IE: Sebring 1972).

    If racing is not a proving ground for future technologies, then it is simply in vain and just
    fun for the boys to go roundy-round each weekend. When racing fails to be such a proving
    ground, then racing is failing.

    Interesting topic, thanks for bringing it up Igor.

    BHW
     
  6. Jana

    Jana F1 Veteran

    Mar 4, 2015
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    Physical viewers have grown tired of the high ticket prices, ridiculous parking situations and hours it takes to get in and out of a venue. More would prefer to watch in the comfort of their air conditioned home on a big screen in their media room with nachos, beer and bathroom access only steps away and no line to get to them.

    Television viewers have grown tired of the constant requirement of yet another subscription service whose coverage seems to grow worse year after year. I know I have. I still watch but I have plenty of disposable income. Those that don't probably feel differently.
     
  7. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    I think that Racing has evolved from a "sport" to a business.... the real sport of racing is in NASA, SCCA, Karting etc... that is real racing for the fun and accomplishment of it.

    the Racing you see on TV is very contrived - don't get me wrong I like it, but the rules etc are built to deliver a specific product - NASCAR being the prime example ...

    the "glory" days are called that because in terms of money - there was not as much there, and you did it because you liked it and were good at it. some drivers made a living - but not like the modern guys where they make Millions every year. in the 60's if you could call your self a working racing driver you were on par with a mid level professional ... but certainly not rich.

    so the intrusion of money, raised the bar, which raises technology which raises the money... into a upward spiral...

    but is Racing an outdated concept - there will always be people who think they can do something faster , better than others - driving a car or bike , kart is one of them.... and unless you take the fun out of going fast... racing will survive in some form.
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    This is part of it.

    Also to me anyway, technology has allowed almost any type of race car to potentially go faster that it makes sense allowing them to go in the name of safety. That brings on manipulation of rules and regulations to limit that to ludicrous levels and no one seems to find the right combination that doesn't end up looking too contrived.
     
  9. stever

    stever F1 Rookie
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    This. Auto racing started as a technical exercise; first, to see who could simply finish, later to see who could get there fastest(maybe with some tire replacement, mechanical repairs). It had value for individual manufacturers, and the industry as a whole as reliability encouraged purchase by the public. Later still, in Indycar at least, technical rules encouraged creativity when speeds were still 'safe'. I remember listening to Indy 500 qualifying, listening on the radio, as car after car established a 'new track record'. Believe it or not, it was exciting!
    Now, F1 has incredible technology, but there's no requirement to be open or share this tech with the fans, so....it's hard to care.
    I think there's still plenty of interest in high school track races, so I don't think 'racing' itself is without perceived merit among the young.
     
  10. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    I think it depends on what form of racing we are talking about.

    NASCAR, Indy, F1 etc.. I think have lost their relevance in a lot of ways.

    But GT racing seems to be very relevant to manufacturers and the transfer of technology.
     
  11. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
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    A number of stellar opinions have been rendered here. I do agree that young people, particularly males, seem to have lost their fascination with automobiles & driving. 20 or 25 years ago getting a license & operating a car were almost as high up as a teenage male's ambition reached. (Guess what was higher?) Now, I know several males who waited years after they became of age to get their driver's license. Combine that with the wimpification of the American male (a very good point made above) and you have a recipe for decreased interest in motorsports. Add in the PITA it is to find the races on TV and the sanctioning bodies manipulating results (whether via BS yellow flags, Balance of Power juggling, or universally mandated specifications/technology) and you come up with a large "why bother" crowd.
    I remember when my friends and I would spend a large part of Saturday getting our cars ready for an autocross. On Sunday we would run 3 or 4 times which totaled 6 or 7 minutes of racing, yet we would be thrilled. I don't see that often in today's car culture. Maybe if a 16 year old has a jet ski to ride all weekend that 6 or 7 minutes of thrill is insufficient.
    What I really want to know is who are the heroes of today's teenaged kids? Is there a contemporary Dan Gurney or Mario Andretti figure whose poster is on garage walls? Do kids still look up to astronauts, fighter pilots or policemen/firemen? Hell, are there even still astronauts?
    Just 2 cents from a 60 year old whose 1st live race was won by Jim Clark in a Lotus 49.
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    What I hear from younger generations around me is that sports can exist, without competition.
    I don't know how that can translate in motor racing, but some now see competitive sport as aggressive.
    It's true that if you find that you are not among the best in your field, you tend to give up sport, although it may be good to your well being.
     
  13. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #13 WILLIAM H, Mar 29, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You got to remember racing has to be a spectacle. People LOVE the Bubbles and I suppose they like my car, Eric, & I.

    I imagine people find the sprit races more exciting than a 4 hr enduro.

    At FARA races I rent bouncy houses for the kids and there's a VIP w AC, food, drinks.

    You have to make it attractive cus racing is competing with other activities.
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  14. Lotaz

    Lotaz Formula 3

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    This, I am not rich but definitely make a good living but ticket prices to races are crazy. The cost of a day at the races is so crazy why wouldn't you stay home? Plus the hassle, wow. Even though I love going to the races there is nothing more comfortable than sitting in my Jeeper Cave (Media Room) watching races. The older I get the more enticing that recliner is!
     
  15. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

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    William H, you have just provided us with 12 good reasons for every red blooded male to like racing!
     
  16. Hollywood-GP

    Hollywood-GP Karting

    Jun 15, 2015
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    While most modern racing series might be a showcase of modern engineering and technology, the spectacle in many cases is out dated and due for an update. The method which the sport is presented to the public, needs to be interactive, socially involved, customizable, and forget the TV networks and present the content direct to the viewer.
     
  17. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Bubbles only deliver to me LOL.
     
  18. stever

    stever F1 Rookie
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    What racing series do you find crazy expensive?

    The hassle of going to a road race? I don't see it...but Road America is my regular haunt.

    I find that road racing doesn't translate well to television. Are those satisfied with races on TV roundy round fans?
     
  19. Jana

    Jana F1 Veteran

    Mar 4, 2015
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    I have also known a few teens who weren't interested in getting their license. All boys. I thought it very strange. BUT on the plus side, I don't see any decrease in interest in karting AND I see more girls karting than ever. So there's that.

    I think those of us who have the thrill seeking gene are going to always be drawn to things that are dangerous and fast.

    The roundy round bores me to death. I was an F1 fan back when it was actually interesting, and I'm still holding out hope it will be again some day. I love Moto GP, which is where all the good racing has been the past couple years.
     
  20. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    good point and I suspect they look better in person then on TV. sort of the opposite of racing
     
  21. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Excellent points. I think you are just missing the impact of the great recession on the millennial generation. I think people are always interested in showing who is better, faster, stronger, etc. But the millennials are simply delayed in their economic development by ~7-10 years due to the great recession so you won't see them as interested in things like cars and other big ticket items. But, they are beginning to fall into historical norms. Again, just delayed. And Gen Z (the one after millennials) seems to be into cars.

    I also think our society is more and more specialized and fractured in our abilities and interests.

    But, have a look at the booming car based video game industry. Look at the success of Fast n Furious movies. People still like cars and to drive and to see who is fastest.
     
  22. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well maybe we just need to wait until they are in their 50's after their kids leave the house and have their 1st jobs after college. 90% of SCCA are old guys because they can afford to race. 20% are sponsored young guys thinking they have a career in motorsports. Racing costs so much money getting 25% of the fun for pennies doing gran-turismo video game seems like a great idea.

    I'm racing all out of my area for 2017 ending up at Indy for the SCCA Runoffs.
    I just got back from CoTA and I'm from cali. The cost of racing is just plain dumb. I would be on track for less than 2.5hrs over practice, qualy and races.

    registration $875.
    garage $1400
    plane ride $600
    hotel $700
    tires $1750
    car shipping $2000
    rental car $300
    disposables gas/brake pads etc $600

    ***********total $8,225.00 for the race weekend or $3290.00/hour on the track!

    These are just the recurring costs not the cost of the car or the new helmet and harnesses every 5 years or fixing things that break or the occasional new motor etc.

    Maybe the issue is not "interest" but how many have the money to go racing?
     
  23. That's some pretty high tech electronics and repairs.... What sensors are used to warn of dropping a valve, holing a piston, spinning a bearing, burning a clutch, etc., etc.?
    And what are the ultra high tech repairs for the prevention thereof you refer to? I don't recollect any "preventative maintenance" pit stops other than tire changes (and brake pad replacement in endurance racing). Forget about it in any other form. ;)

    No, methinks more the advances in materials and design regarding durability than electronic monitoring and any sort of "preventative repair".

    Part of the disinterest is the loss of the concern regarding possible mechanical failure which decided so many races in the past as opposed to nowadays (I know, I know...explain that one to Toyota, eh? Your "monitoring" didn't save them. :(). Thus the need to "spice" things up artificially by BoPing to "equalize" the competition for a less predictable outcome. (boo hiss...)

    I must. It's genetic. :)



    "Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..."

    lorenzobandini
     
  24. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    Racing has become more about invisible tech and code, rather than primeval gladiatorial combat. F1 for instance was populated with larger than life characters wrestling mechanical cars that pierced eardrums like an AC/DC concert and spat flames from exhausts. Drivers getting lifted from the cockpit through sheer exhaustion. It was a spectacle of visible human challenge.

    Sports that remain tech-free are still sell-out ticket events. Football, Boxing, UFC etc are all primeval spectacles.

    I don't want to buy a ticket for "racing" which resembles Xbox.
     
  25. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    #25 BartonWorkman, Mar 30, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I began doing an article on the improvements in reliability and how the electronic age
    has changed the face of racing a couple of years ago.

    Unfortunately, no one at the time was at much liberty to discuss all the details involved with
    everything the teams monitor. My friends with Audi and Ferrari were quite clear that there
    were certain lines that they could not cross with regard to revealing just how much of this
    comes into play but, for sure, there is not a square inch of a car these days that isn't monitored
    by telemetry.

    But, the final results of races speaks volumes. And, believe me, Toyota knew that they
    had an issue before the car's turbo system gave out on the last lap as all one has to do is look
    closely at the guts of a car to see all the sensors placed throughout. Unfortunately for Toyota,
    with the end in sight, there wasn't much they could do about it and of course these electronics
    and sensors do not fix issues, they merely transmit to the engineers on the pit wall and
    behind the pits.

    When veteran drivers are asked what the biggest differences are between cars of the past and
    the cars of today are, the answers are usually brakes, construction methods and reliability.

    BHW
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