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  #1  
Old 06-19-2017, 03:15 PM
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1986 Ferrari 637 Indy car

question. Why didn't Ferrari proceed with the development of their Indy car project ? sure is a good looking car and would have probably been competitive. Ironic that Lotus in 85 built a prototype Indy car that used a Cosworth DFX and sure looked like a combination of March and Lola. great looking cars that never saw the track.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ferr...=1497903108012

Lotus type 96

https://www.google.com/search?q=lotu...=1497903304344
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:22 PM
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as I understand it, the entire program was a bluff to get what Enzo (and/or LDM?) wanted from Bernie Ecclestone. I don't think they ever intended on actually entering CART.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:16 PM
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The car is on display at the factory museum in Maranello.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GuyIncognito View Post
as I understand it, the entire program was a bluff to get what Enzo (and/or LDM?) wanted from Bernie Ecclestone. I don't think they ever intended on actually entering CART.
Montezemolo wasn't the least bit involved with Ferrari in the '80's. As far as the bluff goes, that is the predominant story but it has never been confirmed or denied, so let's go with that.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:53 PM
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ummmm.....so here what wiki has to say about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_637
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tifoso2728 View Post
Montezemolo wasn't the least bit involved with Ferrari in the '80's. As far as the bluff goes, that is the predominant story but it has never been confirmed or denied, so let's go with that.
thanks for clarifying, off the top of my head I couldn't remember when LdM was/wasn't involved with the team.

I guess in the mid 80's he had more important things to snort at
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:03 PM
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Here is a shot of the description on the plaque at the museum. Sorry it is a bit blurry.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
ummmm.....so here what wiki has to say about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_637
I believe wiki is in error in stating that the upper chassis was aluminum, and the lower carbon fiber. More than likely, the exact opposite is true. And this was a CART regulation at that time. Even though F1 cars of that era were all carbon fiber, the CART rulemakers were not certain an all carbon fiber chassis would be strong enough for the big ovals.

It's interesting to note that Porsche also built an Indycar that never saw competion.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...5e341758d7.jpg
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by spicedriver View Post
I believe wiki is in error in stating that the upper chassis was aluminum, and the lower carbon fiber. More than likely, the exact opposite is true. And this was a CART regulation at that time. Even though F1 cars of that era were all carbon fiber, the CART rulemakers were not certain an all carbon fiber chassis would be strong enough for the big ovals.

It's interesting to note that Porsche also built an Indycar that never saw competion.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...5e341758d7.jpg
"It's interesting to note that Porsche also built an Indycar that never saw competition."

Are you sure about this? I think at least the Porsche engines ran CART for one season.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tifoso2728 View Post
"It's interesting to note that Porsche also built an Indycar that never saw competition."

Are you sure about this? I think at least the Porsche engines ran CART for one season.
I think the first one they built (the one in the picture), had set a lap record at Ontario, so CART changed the rules to make in uncompetitive. So that one never raced. And there was another carbon fiber chassis that was banned. But you are correct in that some March chassis cars ran with Porsche motors.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by spicedriver View Post
I think the first one they built (the one in the picture), had set a lap record at Ontario, so CART changed the rules to make in uncompetitive. So that one never raced. And there was another carbon fiber chassis that was banned. But you are correct in that some March chassis cars ran with Porsche motors.
Here is what Wikipedia says about Porsche at Indy:

Porsche first attempted to compete in the 1980 Indianapolis 500 with an engine initially based on the 935 sports car flat 6 with Interscope Racing as the entrant and Danny Ongais as driver. The engine would be fitted to Interscopes's new Interscope IR01, which featured a tubular rear subframe, as the Porsche motor could not be used as a stressed member as the Cosworth engines were. USAC had more favorable rules for stock-block engines at the Indy 500 than CART allowed at their races. Porsche applied to and received approval from USAC for their engine to be allowed the stock block boost pressure of 55 inches. After setting an unofficial lap record in private testing at the now-defunct Ontario Motor Speedway, a clone of the Indiana track, rumors circulated regarding the performance of the engine and top-level teams pressured officials to alter their initial ruling and now categorize the Porsche a race motor, dropping boost pressure to 48" thus losing its boost and horsepower advantage. Porsche withdrew and Interscope entered a Parnelli VPJ6C-Cosworth DFXat Indianapolis that year. The Indianapolis engine became in the basis of the highly-successful 956/962 motor.

Porsche return to CART in its 1987 season fielding Al Unser in the #6 Quaker State Porsche, with the chassis and engine both being Porsche only competing at the Champion Spark Plug 300K at Laguna Seca Raceway. Unser would qualify 21st out of 24 cars and would retire in 24th place after only seven laps due to a water pump failure. For 1988 Teo Fabi would drive the #8 Quaker State March 88C-Porsche getting a best finish of 4th at the Bosch Spark Plugs Grand Prix at Pennsylvania International Raceway, Fabi would finish tenth in points. For 1989 Fabi would drive the #8 Quaker State March 89P-Porsche qualifying on the pole position at both the Budweiser / G.I. Joe's 200 at Portland International Raceway and the Red Roof Inns 200 at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course getting the win at the latter. Fabi would also give Porsche their best finish on an IndyCar oval by finishing 2nd at the Marlboro 500 at Michigan International Speedway.

In 1990 Porsche attempted to race a new car with carbon-fiber chassis, but CART banned it.[7] The team expanded to two cars, fielding Fabi in the #4 Foster's/Quaker State March 90P-Porsche and John Andretti in the #41 Foster's March 90P-Porsche. Fabi would qualify on the pole position at the Texaco/Havoline Grand Prix of Denver at the Streets of Denver and would finish 3rd at the Marlboro Grand Prix at the Meadowlands at the Meadowlands Sports Complex but would drop to 14th in points. While Andretti would get a best finish of 5th at the Budweiser Grand Prix of Cleveland at Burke Lakefront Airport and at the Molson Indy Vancouver at the Streets of Vancouver and would finish tenth in points.

Porsche withdrew from IndyCar at the end of the 1990 season. Team director Derrick Walker bought the assets to become the owner of Walker Racing.
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:32 AM
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yeah, John Andretti told me that the 1990 car ran the turbo ahead of the motor just ahead of the fuel cell. the waste gate and exhaust ran right along the left side of the tube and came out right around his left side mid section of his body. if he ever crashed that car on the left he would burn to death if the turbo ignited the fuel cell.

he said other than that it was a great design the full carbon tub was the first built I believe. he also said the tub was built for e and Teo and they were a tight fit.

the Fosters colors looked really good on that car.

the 88 and 89 March chassis was a good looking car too but the Porche chassis wa fantastic.

I pit crew on a 87 March Indy car that was run by Steve Chassis and we ran it at the speedway a couple years ago which is soo fun..

Brian
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Old 06-21-2017, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Lotus91 View Post
yeah, John Andretti told me that the 1990 car ran the turbo ahead of the motor just ahead of the fuel cell. the waste gate and exhaust ran right along the left side of the tube and came out right around his left side mid section of his body. if he ever crashed that car on the left he would burn to death if the turbo ignited the fuel cell.

he said other than that it was a great design the full carbon tub was the first built I believe. he also said the tub was built for e and Teo and they were a tight fit.

the Fosters colors looked really good on that car.

the 88 and 89 March chassis was a good looking car too but the Porche chassis wa fantastic.

I pit crew on a 87 March Indy car that was run by Steve Chassis and we ran it at the speedway a couple years ago which is soo fun..

Brian
Wow! Amazing insight. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:11 AM
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Enzo Ferrari had always wanted to Win at Indy. he considered it un finished business. Bobby Rahal actually was recruited to test the Ferrari Indy Car, and did some cursory laps at Fioriano. He also provided a March for Ferrari to study as it developed the Indy car.

Enzo was serious about getting his way in F-1, and used it to call Eccelstone's direction... so he could get V-12 engines back in F-1, as well as payments to Ferrari for participating. While its romantic to think Enzo wanted V-12's again, it really was about Ferrari getting its way and being paid for the special situation they had in F-1 racing.


Pic is your's truly at the Ferrari Museum in Maranello ..
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:49 AM
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Old 06-23-2017, 02:46 PM
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too cool Tom.
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Old 06-23-2017, 05:09 PM
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Normally the cars would have to had run a race, but it would be great to see the Ferrari, and Porsche Indy cars running at a vintage event.
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:08 AM
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the 1989 March / Alfa comes out to play every once in a while but soon has an issue with loss of oil and implodes.. just like it did all of 1989 .

Pat Patrick did a deal with Alfa to build him engines in 89-90.. even had the schnitzvah's to send Alfa a complete Cosworth DFX to copy which they did.

the Alfa came to Indy and in every practice the motor let go and fogged down the speedway.. It looked like a mosquito treatment .

they blew up every motor they had.. It was a good looking motor tho .
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Old 07-11-2017, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lotus91 View Post
the 1989 March / Alfa comes out to play every once in a while but soon has an issue with loss of oil and implodes.. just like it did all of 1989 .

Pat Patrick did a deal with Alfa to build him engines in 89-90.. even had the schnitzvah's to send Alfa a complete Cosworth DFX to copy which they did.

the Alfa came to Indy and in every practice the motor let go and fogged down the speedway.. It looked like a mosquito treatment .

they blew up every motor they had.. It was a good looking motor tho .
All motors are good looking.

I saw a 4 cyl Offy last week, wish they could get back to Indy..
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:23 AM
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All motors are good looking.

I saw a 4 cyl Offy last week, wish they could get back to Indy..
Here are some pics from my visit to the Indy museum:

Last edited by rdefabri; 07-12-2017 at 08:19 AM.
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