First post in this section so here goes... I am considering finding a Euro spec 930 to collect. Seems they are not too overvalued compared to comparable Ferraris (BB512) and I have always wanted one since I was a kid. So the choices seem to be between an early one with the 3.0 engine or a later one with the bigger displacement. A few questions: when did the change to 3.3 occur? Is the driving experience different? Is there a reason I should look for one over the other (I was looking for an early 3.0 but could be convinced otherwise)? I am used to 12 cylinder Italian stuff, will this car be entertaining and exotic? I had an 84 Carrera 3.2, nice but a bit bland. I am ok with 917 brakes, turbo lag, 4 speed box, etc. The weirdness of it is what interests me. Compared to Fcar restoration costs will parts for the old 930 be cheaper? I assume there will be less of them.
Hi JohnMH, you are correct in your observation that the 930 turbo seems undervalued, but let me first answer with regard to your questions: - the change to the 930/2 occurred with the 1978 model year - 08/1977 - the driving experience is quite similar, a torquier engine in the 3.3l compared to a freer revving 3.0l up until the 1989 model year with a change to the reinforced G50 gearbox which allowed even more relaxed cruising... - 930/1 2840 total production (1583 Euro / 1257 US) vs 930/2 24562 total production - compared to the 512BB which I drove for 6 years, the 930 wins on everyday usage,agility and its smaller size, but looses on high speed handling, stability, looks and sound Yes, it is an entertaing car, that is muchly appreciated. As you´re looking for a 930 Euro spec turbo to collect, the numbers speak for themselves: 1975 - 1977 3.0l turbo is the one to get, especially the 1975 model year (284 cars) or the 1977 model year ( 695 cars), as they incorporate corrosion proof zync coating, 16" wheels, boost pressure gauge... Alternatively, the 1989 model year, with the 5speed gearbox (1216 cars, 857 coupé). Parts are readily available, but at comparatively high prices... (turbos, brakes, exterior trim parts), but nowhere near Ferrari part prices. PM me for further questions. Best, Dominik
There are a lot of 930's. A collector 930 is going to be completely stock with very low documented miles. These cars have been going up in price. If that's what you want then my first choice would be a '75-'77, or an '89. If you plan on driving it then the collect ability and value go down with the miles. If you plan on driving it I would go with a '78 or newer. The '89 w/5 speed would be my first choice. The pre-'78's are under braked using SC brakes vs the 930 brakes introduced in '78. Also, the pre 78's didn't have intercoolers. Though I prefer the look of the pre-'78's I thought they were pretty gutless compared to the 3.3's. Also if you decide to modify the car for better power, handling etc the later cars are a better platform to start with. You can get rid of most of the turbo lag with a different turbo, go with a shorter ring & pinion for the trans for better low end. Power is limited to your check book, 500-600 reliable h.p. is pretty common. While restoration costs would be cheaper than a Ferrari, it's still not cheap. The most expensive being the motor. Most, if not all the parts are still available. If you plan on high speed driving then at the very least a complete suspension re fresh would be in order. You can improve handling quite a bit with aftermarket suspension up grades, again based on your check book. This would include larger torsion and sway bars, re-valved or adjustable shocks, and bigger wheels & tires. The stock turbos came with 7' & 9" wheels with I believe 205 front tires and 245 rear tires. As a comparision I run 255 front tires and 315 rear tires on 17" rims.
Thanks, useful information. I always thought early 930s had 917 brakes. Not true? I want a Euro car without emissions equipment, thermal reactors, etc which will cause heat related issues. Absolute power is not an issue with speed limits, I just want a period correct experience. Not certain if I see it as an investment, rather as an unusual bit of kit, one of those cars which a lot of people will see and remember that they wanted one way back then. Good for meeting people at gas stations and coffee shops. I drive an old testarossa and countach now, a 930 (and a BB512) would complete the set.
Also: The pre-78 930's without the intercooler had pretty hefty turbo lag. They had a pretty low compression ratio (no intercooling) and are really dogs until the boost kicks in - a very dramatic experience. The 77 was the first year with the boost gauge (in the tach).
I would say go with the 3.3. Sure they made more of them, but demand will always be higher for them because they are much faster, brake way better, look better, have fatter wheels and tires (therefore better handling too) and are a true late seventies and even more so, an eighties icon just like the TR and Countach. Everyone looks through the wheels to see if your turbo-looking Porsche is 'real' or not, as so many normal 911s were 'kitted' to look like 930s, and ironically, the 3.0 will be called a poser without the big cross-drilled discs! Plus the thick whale tail is the icon and people seeing the 'parcel shelf' tail will think it isn't a real turbo. Get the faster, more developed one and avoid having to explain to all the naive people that it really is a real 930! It's not a kitted 911! The demand will be there for the one that millions always wanted in th eighties, the 3.3 intercooled one with the awesome brakes. Now if you want to go all-out-eighties-icon, get a factory slant nose 930 cabriolet......it doesn't get any more eighties than that!
i own both a boxer and a 930. i need a real 427 cobra and i will have 3 of the coolest cars known to man! find a great 3.3 930 and you will not regret it. pcb
Are there any early / late 930 bits which are getting hard to find? Front tires are hard to find for a LP400S, rear tires nigh impossible for a Testarossa unless you go to a specialist. TR interior trim is a tough find. Ironically, Countach bits are easy, if expensive. Any good articles out there on what to look out for?
OEM parts are plentiful for pretty much everything you'll ever need.........and the aftermarket is enormous. I'd get a 1986-1989 (nicer interior than the earlier cars)........the 3.3 is easier to mod, offers more power potential, and is more desirable to a greater pool of buyers.
if you are looking for a Euro car with more power, go for a 80-85. if you want soemthing really special, get a factory 81-85 slant / special wishes model w/ even more power. be carefull however on how they were converted to meet US/DOT compliance. some were hack jobs and others were converted well. also try to verify mileage as when the kilo speedos wer swapped out with MPH, soem were set at Zero and some owners will then claim low mileage. paper work is key. if you whan collectibility, IMHO the ranking is: 3 liter cars, 89/G50/50, the 78-79 as the 79s were the last of the truly hand made 930s w/ butt welded flares, then the 86-88. if you want one to hot rod, i would pick a 86-88. while a 12 cyl F car at song sounds sweet, a 930 on full boost running thru headers a larger turbo , w 964 cams and an open dump pipe sounds like a rocket taking off and nothing sounds like it.....ask me how i know.
I am a Canadian living overseas so all the Euro cars are ok for me age wise. I think they had slightly higher compression and maybe different cam timing as well. Or not, I am not an expert. Does the extra gear on the 5 speed make a difference to the drivability of the car? Anything I buy I leave stock (ok I put a capistro on the TR, but that is it) so the ability to modify is not a big plus. A friend sold his Miura to buy a restored 935, if I wanted something like that I would buy a dead ex racer (I found a German 934 in need of restoration on the net but don't think it is either reliable or road legal). Sheer numbers would suggest the early cars are more collectable.
Definetly not the case over here in Europe. Supply vs Demand = Price low demand = low price high demand = high price 1975 - 77 930 turbo 50.000 - 85.000 1989 930 turbo 45.000 - 80.000 1978 - 88 930 turbo 25.000 - 45.000
Ughhhhh... But but but... Ruf absolutely HATED the slantnose design and only bowed to the pressure of customers to even produce them. 'Fraid to say it, but I am in Alois Ruf's camp - I like the big, voluptuous front end on a 911 as well.
Well, Ruf was smart to build what customer wanted. Customers' demand is what drives any market, and in the eighties, everyone wanted slant noses because they were easier to see out of, were more aerodynamic, and looked like the Porsche 934 and 935 race cars, and just looked cool. That eighties generation who wanted them back then are getting to that age where they have more disposable income and will want their dream cars from the eighties, and will drive the collectability of the cars, and especially the slant noses. In the US, anyway, where they were in the most demand. The normal front end cars are an icon because they are Turbos, but the slant noses is more rare, more distinctive, and more exotic, and imo therefore will become the most collectable. I have already seen this in some high-end auctions, like Gooding, where slant noses are doing better than the conventional turbos.
Well then, don't get one! However, there are many, many thousands of people that loved them and I predict that will continue to drive future collectability and prices up in the US at an increasing rate. It has already started happening. I personally like them both, but a regular 930 has nothing on the other major icons, the Testarossa and Countach, wereas a slant nose can hang in that crowd. But there are many who hate all these cars, and that is up to them. Regarding the 'special wishes' slant noses, I would say just pay up and get a 1986-1989 model with the factory slant nose option 505. That way there is absolutely no question about authenticity as the factory can send you a Letter of Authenticity stating exactly how a car came from the factory and if that option was put on the car. That is important because slant nose Porches are like Cobras in that almost all of the ones you ever see are fakes. The aftermarket created many thousands of slant noses before the factory realized the demand and offered the option itself. The problem with the 'special wishes' cars is there was no documentation, and the factory Letter of Authenticity won't address whatever happened to those cars, so there is no way of knowing if they were really done at the factory or not without an invoice stating that. Furthermore all special wishes cars were grey market, so another ding for them in the USA. So, real factory option slant noses are more rare than either Countachs, Testarossas or even F40s. Some say that all the fakes devalue the few real ones, and I say 'No'; all the fake Cobras out there, increasing each year by new replica production, hasn't hurt the Cobra market one bit. You can love or hate the look, but imo the eighties kids will increasingly want them, driving the price of the real + very rare ones up. For example, I was at a Porsche event at Poudre Sports, a Porsche specialty shop in Fort Collins, and the mechanics (jaded by seeing and working on Porsches every day from 8 to 5) were excited by the presence of a real slant nose cab. One of them said something like "Wow, this is the first time in a long time I've been really excited by a Turbo.....you never see real ones like this.....".
Furthermore all special wishes cars were grey market, so another ding for them in the USA. I'm not quite clear on this statement. Porsche started offering the slant nose option in the U.S. in '87. Here is a link to a Pelican thread discussion. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/447083-slantnose-slant-nose-slope-m505-factory-930s-documents-registry-ultimate-flachbau.html
Sorry I wasn't clear, but after Porsche offered a factory option in 1986 or so, the cars were built with the slant nose option on the assembly line. Prior to that, the cars that were special wishes cars went from the assembly line to a special, specific area in the factory to be converted. Those were the ones that are considered special wishes cars, and as they were all pre 1986, they were all grey market cars as Porsche made no Turbos for the US before that.
No, I always liked the bug eyed big hopped look of a 930, the only slantnose I would want would be a 935 (joke). Seems like the 3.3 is the better driver, so I will look for one in Germany. Longevity might be an issue with the turbo (coked bearings), or is that no longer an issue with modern oils. I suspect, although likely not inexpensive, a new turbo is readily available for any 930. Having driven lots of newer 911s and once owned an 84 carrera 3.2 euro spec coupe, I gotta ask, well, is the experience of the turbo worth all the extra hassle over a good 3.2?
