Anyone here build a 911 Hot Rod? | FerrariChat

Anyone here build a 911 Hot Rod?

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by sherpa23, Nov 3, 2013.

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  1. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    I am considering building a 911 Hot Rod. I have an amazing 1973 Carrera RS and I have zero interest in copying that car or making a fake of it as so many people like to do. Instead, I would like to make something else that's a long hood early car with that 2.7 motor that's more in the style of an R Gruppe car. I have a few other things in mind but I wanted to see if anyone here has made one and if they had any regrets, surprises, or praises that they would like to share.

    I know that I can ask on Rennlist or Pelican Parts but it seems that every time a question like this is asked, it starts a war of opinions and religions just about. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    Given your admirable good taste, Sherpa, I'm interested in hearing what you've got in mind.

    I've been thinking of doing the same thing. It seems like there are three routes: 1) grab an early car and get to modifying. The downsides here: cost (since early 911s have jumped in price lately), rust (for most of the shells you'll look at, and, potentially guilt (not so many survivors).

    Plan 2) seems to be to build off the 912. You'll need to do some extra welding (for motor mounts) but you'll be welding anyway if there's rust. The pluses of 912s are that they're relatively cheap, nobody seems to care about them, and they (if they're not 3 gauge cars) share many of the interior/exterior bits of the 911

    Plan 3) seems to be to take a 964 (or 3.2) shell and backdate it. Downsides here: they're heavier, there's more bodywork (but you were going to do some anyway if you wanted flared fenders), and it's not an early 911. The bonus: a bigger, newer motor to massage

    I haven't seen much in the way of mid-70s 911s modified, but they may be a good starting point, too.
     
  3. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

    Jan 1, 2007
    9,148
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    I don't have one but it's SO SO tempting. Not ashamed to admit that I have been smitten by the Magnus Walker hype. The purity of the earliest 911s is very attractive. But I couldn't handle ruining an old 911 and I don't have the skills or time to create a complete car with some parts here and there.

    I would like to start from a 964 C2 and take it from there instead. Its only downside is, as mentioned above, the added weight vs. earlier models.
    Tons and tons of "classic look" options are available, cheap entry price (for the 964), tons of proper performance upgrades available too... And for me living in the rusty North... it's a big bonus that the newer aircooled models are much more rust resistant.

    I have some pictures of an awesome 964 "RSR" build from Norway, but the attachments are failing ("invalid file" because of .jpeg extension). Any advice on how to modify the files so I can upload them? It's worth seeing, I'm sure.
     
  4. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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    AFAIK Octane magazine made an issue for the history of 911 and it included a Porsche club with only Porsche 911 hot rods. I will see the issue number and i will mention it here. The strange thing was that to be a member of that club, your Porsche must be genuine/unique hot rod.
     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Those are the plans. I'm a little ahead of the game in that I have a good shell and motor ifI decide to proceed but everything else is up in the air. Nothing is certain but if I do it, I'll do it with a good 911 SWB chassis and a carbed 2.7 - essentially a carbed version of my RS motor. What I don't know is what kind of flares to do (if any), what wheels, what scheme (s/t, S, R, etc.) although that determines the flares and overall style.

    Also, I am leaning toward making it fairly stripped out, sort of in the style of my F40, but with back seats so I can take my kids in it. That makes it sort of a paradox but I have enough two seaters in my garage. The idea it have a real back road and occasional track day bruiser that I can drive whenever I want in any kind of weather. I know: it sounds weird. I have a lot of figuring out to do, including whether or not to even embark on such a thing.



    I've called Magnus a couple of times to discuss it with him. He definitely has a certain style that's all his. I think that he has given me some incredible advice and shared some great information but I feel that if I went down the road, I'd sort of have a Magnus clone and I want to leave his style to him. Inevitably, ANY well done early 911 Hot Rod will draw comparisons to him but I don't really want to encroach on his style and methods.
     
  6. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    You're really ahead of the game there, Sherpa - if you've already got the chassis and motor.

    I would say that the question around flares is "how much tire do you want to have", which is an extension of the question: "how nimble" (or, conversely, overpowered) do you want it to feel?

    When I think of early 911s, I tend toward wanting more of the "fingertip car" in which things are light and maybe even feel a bit delicate - "skinny' tires and all.

    Obviously you'll get a faster car with fatter rubber (and more aggressive suspension), but I would worry that it won't have quite the same nimble-ness. Yes, it'd be faster, but I think if I were thinking of an early 911 hot rod, I might opt for "overpowering skinny tires" over maximum grunt. My rationale: more fun at lower speeds - which could be great fun with two well-strapped-in kids in the rear

    YMMV


    Also, I appreciate that you don't want to build a Magnus clone. Your car should be your car.
     
  7. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Well, that's a very good point. I guess for what I want, I can't do more than 6's and 7's or front and rear 6's. It's going to be 210hp and hopefully 2100 lbs or so which means that you're right with the narrow tires. Lots to think about.
     
  8. NSXER

    NSXER Formula 3

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    #8 NSXER, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have a couple of them....it will be your favorite!
    1) put in a simple roll bar, no full cage
    2) if building the engine go for low torque
    3) do not use too big of brakes...many "over brake" these cars
    4) use a 731 ring and pinion
    ....just my advice

    Brian
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  9. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    #9 Fritz Ficke, Nov 3, 2013
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    I really like what Chris said.
    When I built up a 911 hot rod I used a no rust 1967 911S and had a twin plug 2.0L screamer with all the up dated longevity and cooling Porsche upgrades like the Carrera oil pump and cooler, 930 rockers and arms, etc. ARP rod bolts were the only place I veered from Porsche parts. The sound was amazing.
    I used Elephant racing suspension and had 6 inch deep Fuchs. The idea was a car that I could thrash as hard as I wanted, 8000 rpm shifts, Tucson heat, and work me as a driver keeping that engine in the power band and those narrow tires in balance. The fun I find in these old Porsches is how light the steering is and how responsive and willing the engine is and the feeling of satisfaction in throttle steering these cars in turns. With skinny tires it all happens at much lower=safer speeds.
    A skinny tire 911 hot rod is a rapier, a muscle car is an axe, and a new Porsche is a ray gun.
    I sold it and missed it so bad I brought another one.
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  10. Mang

    Mang F1 Veteran
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    #10 Mang, Nov 3, 2013
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    Fritz, I drove a modded '66 way back for 9 years my daily driver, so freakin sweet that car! I completely understand you wanting that back!
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  11. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #11 sherpa23, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
    Thanks, Fritz. I appreciate that comment and the pics. What you did is a lot along the likes of what I'm thinking.
     
  12. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    I would like to chime in. For two reason, one of them admittedly is self serving.

    I have a 74 911 Tub, that someone converted very carefully into a Ruf 930S slant nose. ( All OEM parts )The car was stripped bare and real 930 brakes ect were welded into the front firewall, and a 3.5 liter massive turbo engine( K27 D and Kolken + twin plug . ect) was built by Mike Callas at Rennsport in Texas.

    The engine , trans and AC upgrade receipts are over $40k+ the cost of the car, which i have a receipt for through a credit union: another $37k. (previous owner, I have a clear Title) .
    My 930 is getting sorted and some paint work done and should be back to me in a few weeks. It is also going directly up for sale as the car has over 500 HP on low boost and I am terrified of it.

    So the lessons I learned as a dumb-ass with big dreams: be careful what you wish for.

    You have great experience with great cars. Buy something very close to what you want, and then build exactly what you want.
    Do not compromise, but try to have a plan before spending time, energy and money on something that is NOT what you wanted. :)

    Sorry for the spam on my soon to be available 930 Ruf whateveritis. But I thought I wanted a modded 930 and I was very wrong.

    Don't be that guy. :) Good hunting.
     
  13. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #13 sherpa23, Nov 4, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
    Thanks, Brian. I don't know if I can do a roll bar with back seats for kids. But thanks.

    I saw in your profile that you also have a 73 Carrera RS. I own 1108. What number is yours? I'm just curious as to whether or not its close to mine.
     
  14. gumbajv

    gumbajv Karting

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    I've built a couple. A trackable street car, '73 E targa, 3.2, '84 trans w/early r&p, early 5th, lsd, 930 brakes, S.R. shocks, big torsion bars, 1/2 cage, Wevo camber king, factory RS flares, ducktail, etc.
    A street legal race, currently for sale. '75 U.S Carrera IROC look, 3.4 twin plug J.W. motor, Wevo race trans, 935 suspension, full cage, S.R. Fox front struts, RSR rear shocks, lexan windows except the windshield, etc.
    I few things I learned. The targa was so nice I was never going to push it at the track for fear of damage. The more aggressive the track set up, the less comfortable it is on the street. The '75 Carrera with no sound deadening, race exhaust. While very visural, also fatiguing. I built a quieter muffler, now what you hear are the 50 PMO carbs & the straight cut race gears. Still has a beautiful sound, just slightly quieter.
    If your going to track it, I would opt for a long wheel base car. As a streetable track car I'd want:
    Adjustable front & rear shocks.
    Moderate torsion bars, or coil overs, big adjustable sway bars.
    A full cage with a removable front section.
    5 or 6 point belts
    Recaro Pole Position, or similar seats.
    Heat
    After having a number of engine displacements, 2.4E, 2.4S (dynoed at 220 c.h.p.), 2.8 twin plug (dynoed 260), stock 3.2, carbed 3.2, carbed 3.4, 3.5 turbo. I prefer the bigger displacement. The 2.8 didn't have much low end torque, and came alive above 5k, not much fun on the street. The 3.4 comes alive at 4,500 and pulls strong to 7,200, but has good end torque for street driving.
    With the right exhaust most any Porsche motor has a glorious sound.
    There are a lot of routes you can take. The difficulty is building a good performing track car that's comfortable for the street, or visa/versa.
     
  15. marksgtv

    marksgtv Karting

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    #15 marksgtv, Nov 4, 2013
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  16. marksgtv

    marksgtv Karting

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  17. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    Thecarreaper brings up a very good point. Probably the most difficult part about building a hot rod is knowing what you truly want and not what you think you want. The best hot rod 911 you build will be the one you want to drive the most, hopefully one you can not get enough of. One you naturally gravitate towards when you need to drive some where.
    Like Gumbajv stated it is easy in pursuit of lap time to build a car that is most fun on the track, then it is like a bass boat you only use 4 times a year, you do have better street cars. It becomes a limited use item.
    If you build it to close to your RS Carrera spec you will constantly compare the two, and that is no fun, it should be a very different flavor.
    Getting in and out of the car is important, how light the controls feel and easily and accurately they are worked, sound, not to much but enough to provide excitement. The gauges and inside of the car pleasing to look at because that is what a driver/owner sees the most of. And the car should be light there is no replacement for light to make a car nimble.
     
  18. gumbajv

    gumbajv Karting

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    #18 gumbajv, Nov 4, 2013
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  19. Omnivore

    Omnivore Formula Junior

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    Mr. Sherpa, may I congratulate you on your impeccable taste. I've had several old various 911 hotrods all built by Jeff Gamroth at Rothsport.

    Welcome to Rothsport Racing

    Consider using them. They have recently developed programmable EFI throttle bodies for any motor. This is a quantum leap over carbs.

    You wrote SWB, as in pre-69. Little trickier handling. LWB cars offer more options for big motors, etc. But SWBs are the pure deal. All my 911s were different--I'm happy to provide details and info. I've learned that for the street, staying true to the original 911 idea is best.
    Keep the unsprung weight (wheels, tires, brakes) down, keep the torsion bars, bigger displacement is nicer to live with, lower it with a little rake, and definitely use a Guard Pro LSD.

    Everything else (bushings, bar rates, shocks, gearing, creature comforts, etc.) are all determined by what you want the car to be.

    G' luck.
    Matthew
     
  20. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9lAsSZNVnU]1972 Porsche 911 72STR 002 - Jay Leno's Garage - YouTube[/ame]

    NICE!
     
  21. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Michael, I have been in that car. As I said earlier in this thread, I have no desire to build a copy of that or any of Magnus's other creations. He does good work but it's his work and should be left as that. Just as I don't want to build a copy or a fake of a real car, I don't want to make a copy of anyone else's work.
     
  22. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

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    You are of course right; the whole point of a 911 hot rod should be to create something unique that displays the owners taste and preferences.
     
  23. Canine64

    Canine64 Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2005
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    Subscribed. Great idea and wish you luck. Keep us posted on your progress. On a related note, my mechanic recently contacted me about hot rodding an SC that he had. I might have considered it if I just hadn't snagged a new to me 964 C2. Looking at all the amazing cars in this thread makes me wonder about giving him a call back......
     
  24. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Amazing ! Who makes that Tachometer with the other gauges inside ? That is brilliant !
     
  25. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #25 sherpa23, Nov 5, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013

    Lots of good stuff there but it's not really going to be a track car. More of a very versatile street car. I don't plan on making it a track car but I don't want to be afraid to take it on the track if I feel like it.

    I'm meeting with my restoration guy today and we will talk out some of what I have in mind. However, this guy has rebuilt and restored more rare 911s than anyone else I know of - Plenty of RS's, several RSR's (all eras), Club Sports, 3 SC RS's (there were only 20 made), Cup Cars, on and on. I will probably defer to him about much of it but let's see how it goes.
     

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