This a total reversal. It use to be the opposite. Does this seem to be the thought process when buying air cooled 911s? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have a few 3.2 liter cars from the 80's but the looks and sound don't compare to the 2.0 to 2.4 liter cars in my view. I've been enamored of those cars since the early 70's and still don't have one. They were as rare a sight in the 70's as they are today.
Sure values are up, but you can still find reasonable priced in all era's. Its still for the most part buy the best you can afford car. You can also decide you like an 73 RS and compromise by buying a much less expensive well built tribute, for example.
One of the reasons I think most Porsches are getting higher values. Most of the people who want them now, want very nice examples. I know two older guys both retired. They want either a very nice 3.2 or are willing to get an SC if its very nice. They'll pay a premium. They don't want to show, just weekend drivers. But they want near showroom as they can get! To add fun both want a Canadian market car! Its the same with 928's now. There is still lots of them under $10k, even S4's, but they are very tired cars and nobody wants them.
by the car you want, and the best one you can afford. There's no point in having an "old" car if it doesn't perform how you want it to.
I've been custodian of this puppy since 1992 .... (photo taken at Prescott Hillclimb - many years back ) Image Unavailable, Please Login
be very careful when buying an older Porsche, the price run up has caused many bad rust buckets brought back to life... while there is quality work, there is more crap that will come back and take a bite... flippers for quick bucks have flooded the market... the current market has been softened by these flippers... visit the various Porsche sites, they have before and after restoration photos that will convince you to be careful... like the Fcars early Porsche were produced in smaller quantities, it is difficult to find a good one that hasn't been bent up, rusted out or highly modified and returned to original
I agree be careful, goes for any 30 year+ car. Both the guys I know who are looking. Had friends with new 911's in the 1980's. Both guys had government jobs, both their wives school teachers. They couldn't afford a 911 on their government salaries. Now that their kids are out of the house, their houses are paid off or sold. With their combined government pensions with their wives. They can afford a really nice 1980's era 911. They are picky they want as new condition as possible. Its guys like them fueling the market.
It all depends on what you are looking for. Forgetting investment, the early cars (pre-'73) for me are the most fun to drive because they are light and tossable sports cars with very good performance relative to what was available at the time. The "middle era" cars (74 - '98) had more power, but also more weight and they are fundamentally different to drive. They lost a lot of that "light sports car" feel but they perform better than the earlier cars. Ergonomically, the later cars from 74 until '99 weren't that much better in terms of creature comforts than the early cars. If your priority is a light sports car, then the pre-1973's are probably the best. Among those models, the "s" versions are most highly valued, but I drove a lot of these cars in period and found the "e" to be the much better driving car. On paper, the "s" was faster, but (as delivered from the factory) they didn't have any low-end power and you needed to rev them to redline to feel fast. The "e" has power all over the range and felt a lot faster than the "s" in ordinary driving. In fact, an in-period Car & Driver test between the s/e/t models found that the "e" was faster than the "s" to 60mph (though IIRC the "s" was faster than the "e" to 100mph). The "t" was pretty modest in performance, both in C&D's results and my own period driving experience. All of the above is "as delivered" from the factory, but most of the cars today have probably been tuned to tame the original peakiness from the "s" and to add some power to the "t". In period though, I never drove an "s" that I liked, every "e" felt much more powerful in regular driving, and every "t" felt competent but not overly impressive in power. There was a lot of variation performance-wise between individual cars of the same model, which we used to think was variation in cam timing, but that was just a guess. My personal favorites are either the earliest model years or the '72 model year because of the 2.4 liter engine, but all of them pre-73 are special. I think around '68 they changed from the vintage green gauges to black. I didn't like the green gauges in period, but I strongly prefer them now because it's just a much more cool vintage look. In 1969, the wheelbase was increased by more than 2 inches to tame the handling a bit (before the wheelbase increase, Porsche had added 24kg of hidden, and otherwise unnecessary, weight to the front bumper to tame front end lift and oversteer). The handling of the early cars I found more benign than reported, but lifting the throttle in a corner at speed can yield highly undesirable results. Rust was a chronic problem on all 911's until around 1976, when they started zinc plating the bodies, and then in 1978 they started galvanizing them with the introduction of the SC. The 2.7 liter motors in the 74 to 77 model years were famous for cooking themselves to death due to thermal reactors, and for cylinder studs pulling out due to overstressed magnesium cases, but most cars today have probably had these vulnerabilities corrected during rebuilds. The 2.7's have a deservedly bad reputation reliability-wise, but they performed very well when in good health. To me, the 2.7 cars felt a bit torquier than the 3.0 SC model that followed, but the SC was unquestionably faster. The 78 and later models were bulletproof. I like the 3.2's and the 993's of the "middle era" cars. The 3.2 is more powerful than the SC and less bulky and much lighter (though slower) than the 964's. The 993 is the most modern and best performing of that era and many feel it is the best looking. If you are looking for a light tossable 911, the best choices are either a pre-73 (actually the 73's are good too) or (believe it or not) the 996. The 996, at 2900 lbs, was quite a bit lighter than the 993's and 964's before it and the 997's after it. In addition to the light weight, the power of the engine and power steering make it feel very light and tossable like the early cars, but with the modern conveniences of a new car. There are a lot of known issues with the 996, and option selection is important because some of the standard fittings felt and looked very cheap -- so you need to buy very carefully -- but they are pretty amazing in they way they feel like the very early 911's.
Well thought out and explained. This is a great Porsche 911 'summary' covers decades and decades of models, bravo!
Air cooled Porsches, like any car that changes from "used car" to "collector" car are not bought as a cheap alternative to a new car any more. So yes, now the correct phrase is "buy the oldest you can afford"
I get nervous the top is in when people that have no knowledge of the particular market get in thinking it is "can't lose" proposition. This isn't directed at the OP or implying dishonesty, just that it always seems to be that by the time the herd jumps on a "new" hot investment, it tanks.
Interesting comparison comments between early 911s and 996. I enjoyed driving my 69 and 99 911s for the same reason you mentioned- lightweight, tossable feel. IIRC, the 69 911 was the lightest production spec 911. The 996 I had was a low option spec and was likely among the lightest ones of its contemporaries; it was lighter than the 996 GT3.
I didn't realize the '69 was the lightest, but that makes sense since the extended wheelbase allowed them to get rid of the ballast in the front bumper. In '72, for one year only, they moved the oil tank from behind the engine to the front of the engine to try to improve the handling. They added a oil filler door to the front of the rear fender to allow oil to be added, but they scrapped it the following year because it was too easy to mistakenly fill the oil tank with gas
Lol. I remember the '72 oil filler door. My first 911 was a 72 Albert Blue Targa back in the 90s. Relatively fresh out of college, I remember a road trip to San Diego in which a warped valve cover didn't seal right and oil kept dripping on the exhaust. Car stunk up Pacific Beach. Good anti-nostalgic moment for those remembering the "good ole air-cooled days".
Buy what you love- it's not about being smart it's about passion. Phil Image Unavailable, Please Login
as example... my '69 911 weighs approx. 2300 # my 2016 991 Targa 4S weighs approx. 3400 #... almost 50% more... the '69 is light in feel, and very capable yet almost feels like driving a vintage VW... the 991 is firmly planted into the road, all wheel drive and steering along with computer aids and optional NA power, outperforms the vintage 911 in so many ways it becomes apples and oranges... a true comparison is not possible...the new offerings are way much better while including creature features... reality is a well optioned non track "street" car can perform with the track oriented cars in normal street use... the brand has evolved several times over from the early 911, making each new offering better than the previous... the common comment from Porsche legend drivers is they ask which model the best....they answer with "the next one to be introduced"
No right or wrong reason exist. Really boils down to buy the best version you want and can afford. The one thing I've never understood is people buying a Porsche or whatever simply because of the badge. If I buy an 944 its because I like them. I wouldn't buy a 924 to have a Porsche! Same with a 911, they are great cars, but I'm not a fan of the SC. I like all 70's 911's, but they are too old for my taste. I'm spoiled by creature comforts. The new ones are excellent cars, but they are not the 911 I love. Not an air cooled VS water. I like the sound of the air cooled better. I don't like how the design has evolved. The newest don't look like the 911 I love. I might comprise a little, but to me the best 911 is the 964. A 89 to 94 Carrera 2 coupe is the best of both worlds for me. It looks like a 911, a little modern but still classic. It has creature comforts. It sounds like a classic 911!
As they say: You can't pay too much for a Ferrari or an air-cooled Porsche. You can only buy them a little too soon.
