Porsche prices (pre 1990) are crazy

I was originally looking for a 993 Turbo before I bought my 355. The prices moved north very quick and it just made no sense to me to pick the 993 over the 355 at that point (for literally nearly half the price).

That's a lot of beans for maintenance and fuel.

My friend went the 993 Turbo route. After going for a spin in his a few times I'm happy with my decision. The 355 is much more dramatic and engaging in my opinion. Not trying to knock the 993 though, great cars...just makes no sense why one would pick the beetle over the Ferrari at half the price.

 

Air cooled P-bug prices have been over the top for quite some time. Ferrari prices are way cheap by comparison. I'd love to see a soft landing as prices come back to earth but that's always a long shot. In any case, Ferraris are much more car at a much better price, so owners in a better position to weather any upcoming storm.

 

TR and Countach markets have both done the same thing as the air cooled Porsche market.

 

I'm lovin' those strong Porker prices, even conservatively my 993 has on paper (I know, before you all jump down my throat and point out it hasn't until I sell it) more than doubled in value in the 7yrs since I bought it.

I only wish my 'baby F40' had risen in value by anything like the same amount in the 13yrs I've owned it.

I just cringe to think what the lovely Giallo chairs'n'flairs Dino, I could have had for the same money sat on the showroom floor, would have been worth now compared to my 'baby F40'...dohhh.

 

Ah... nothing personal but this Porsche thread is here because why?

 

+1 quote should be moved plus that way we'd get more input anyways.

I bought my 993 for 20k with 170k miles in 2012, sold it for 26k in 2014 with 180k miles. I had to put about 7 grand into it but I was happy I got to enjoy the car for "free." When I sold mine I realized there's no way I would buy a 993 for what prices were then. Haven't followed the market too much since but 993s have seemed fairly stable.

As someone previously said about the TRs and Countaches, I remember a Countach being around 100k a good few years ago...

 

+1. Having said this, the air-cooled P cars seems to have past their peaks in this current cycle. Even pre-90 Ferraris in general seem to be in a correction.

Since this is in the 348/355 section, prices seem stable to slightly positive for 348/355 except for Challenge versions, which seem to have gone up significantly. Personally, I think the 348/355 are great values compared to the air-cooled P cars.

 

Psssst.

Guest what's around the corner for 348/355 pricing?

 

My take is that while there are a TON of 911s out there, the vast majority have optimistically high asking prices... I saw it when I was looking for a #1 or #2 condition Carrera 3.2 G50 several years ago.

While prices weren't totally as high as they're now, there was some justification for the high price: there were a ton of condition #3+ cars with 150K-200K miles for sale but scarce few that were truly pristine, stock, unmolested cars. I believe that this is due to many P-cars being daily drivers and racking up a ton of miles throughout the years, so while there were a ton built, most were used and abused after 30+ years of weather exposure, road salt, moisture, modifications, etc. I had a super hard time finding my unmolested, original paint, original interior 87 Carrera 3.2.

My take is that this started to shoot up air cooled 911 prices for the truly pristine cars... As the rising tide lifts all ships, owners of condition #3+ cars began to ask prices that were increasingly high - many times getting their price or close to it, leading to where we are today. Today, the market seems to be somewhat stable for 911s for the past 18-24 months... No signs of decreasing, but no longer leaping upwards.

That said, I believe that 911s have a completely different pricing dynamic compared to similar vintage Ferraris: most Ferraris were scarcely driven and most have received loving care throughout their lives (as they should!) and are rarely modified. My view is that a truly pristine air cooled 911 may be more rare than the average Ferrari of the equivalent vintage.

Anyways, my $0.02.


Cheers!

Ruben

 

Interesting view, and something I had not really considered. However, why pay way more for a pristine 911 than you'd have to pay for a nice 348 or 355? I have a good deal of experience with both marques but I admit a strong bias toward Ferrari when comparing the two. So maybe others would disagree, but it seems clear to me that a 348 or 355 is much more car than a non-turbo 964 or 993—not so much in regard to performance numbers, but in the whole overall driving/ownership experience.

The one advantage that Porsches have over our cars is **far** better access to parts. Based on numbers alone, there's lots more aftermarket support for 911s than there is for our cars. On top of that, the Porsche as a company shows its respect for vintage car owners in a much more real way than the occasional lip service Ferrari provides to owners of its heritage cars. So it's almost certainly "easier" to own an SC, 3.2 Carrera, 964, or 993 than a 348 or 355, but the ROI on the overall ownership experience still seems much better with Ferraris.

 

We have driven several 355 cars within 10 hours of home. The wife is not on board with the 355 purchase, claims she is spoiled by our '87 930 cab. I think it's the turbo lag/kick she is into. My .02, they are very different machines, when the right one comes across I will go for it.

 

I agree. Not only are there more parts available, they are less expensive and the maintenance fees are reasonable as well. I have hardly put any money into my 993 S, oil changes and a new set of tires compared to an engine out service, and headers on my F355.

 

Apples and oranges, both excellent, but very different. One similarity is they both have four wheels ...

 

I'm skewed more towards the opinion that they are both extremely fun and rewarding to drive and the bigger difference is in performance numbers.

I have to admit to falling in love with my 993 c2. Absolutely love driving it though it does have some flaws. My main complaint really is gearing. Trans shifts wonderfully but drops off a cliff on the 1-2 shift and overall I can't figure out the purpose of the gear ratios, why they ended up how they are.

F355 on the other hand is spot on perfect in this regard.

993 sounds great in it's own way. Kind of metallic and raspy. Doesn't give you a "WOW!" feeling like the 355 but lots of character and really enjoyable. Great throttle response, and nearly as fun to heel/toe downshift though the Ferrari's pedals are set up perfectly for this it's a bit harder in the Porsche.

As for performance, my 355 would destroy the 993, at least in acceleration. I suppose 90+ more rwhp, perfect gearing and 2000 more rpm's on the tach would do that.

A good running 355 is closer in performance to a 993tt than a carrera.

Love them both and have no plans to sell either. Maybe I'm just easy to please but I think mid 90's really is a sweet spot for sports cars. NSX of similar vintage is another I would like to try but haven't yet.

But yes, as for pricing it is always funny to hear how 348/355/360/etc will never be worth anything as they built too many and yet similar year Porsche is worth more and they made billions of them I think

 

Hi Mike, agreed on the parts availability... air cooled P-cars enjoy way more accessible parts and are less costly to maintain than a Ferrari... they're generally bulletproof and many people have driven many of them as such! 200K miles isn't unusual for these cars and they still run strong.

While I don't have a 348/355, I can provide a perspective on my 85 308QV and my 87 Carrera 3.2: to me it's really hard to compare the 2 cars as they each offer such a different driving experience... an air cooled 911 offers a mechanical purity I've not found in any other car. The 308 is a delight to every sense. I don't think I could choose if I had to... I just count my lucky stars that I'm able to have both of my childhood dream cars in my garage!

Not sure if others have more direct comparisons between 348/355 and similar vintage 964/993, but I'd imagine that the design principles guiding the two brands is so radically different that it may end up being a similar comparison to my 308 and 911.


Cheers!

Ruben

 

It's all a matter of personal taste. If you like and enjoy driving a P car, by all means buy one. For me, and I don't care how well they drive, you could not give me a P car. My love for Ferrari is about passion and it's soul. Ferrari brings it like no other. Better cars out there? Perhaps. Faster car? Perhaps. But none are the total package Ferrari is. Sticky parts and melting headers, I'll stay with Ferrari

 

Don't forget melting valve guides! Oh wait, that's a 993 problem too

 

I'm not sure why this is in the 348/355 section. There are always people who like to complain about high prices for cars, which is something I can't understand.

Are you the same guy who went into someone's classified ad saying that you can find great E30 M3's all day long for $25k to $30k and that they were asking way too much, which was followed by a million Fchatters laughing at you saying that if you could find them a great E30 M3 for $25k to $30k they would buy it on the spot and give you a finder's fee?

Yes, looks like it was you:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/other-cars/505692-1989-bmw-m3-diamond-black-black.html#post144365026

Porsche prices: I owned one of the best 1973 2.7 Carrera RSs in the world. When I bought it, lots of people on the interwebs wringing their hands about high Porsche prices said I was an idiot and there's no way they were worth that much. After I enjoyed my time with it and sold it a few years later for a much higher price, I don't remember seeing any more comments from those people.

I would like another 911 and I'm always looking but the right one hasn't shown up yet.

There are lots of cars that I think are going for more than I would want to buy them for. It doesn't bother me. I don't complain about it. I just don't buy them. One day, if enough people agree with me, the prices will go down and maybe I'll add them to my collection. If not, no big deal. I would rather spend my time driving and maintaining the great cars that I own, not complaining about high prices.

I hope that you get your Porsche one day. They're great cars. I don't think that complaining about their prices on a Ferrari board will help you get there any sooner though.

 

I am working on a 9/10 E30 M3 right now, and the owner would not sell it for less than $65K. I am tempted to buy it but I can't buy that and leave it outside....

Now, that is crazy money.

 

And one of the worst over hyped cars Ive ever driven.

 

I've had a 1990 M3 for a long weekend trade with a friend, and loved it. Very fun car to rip around and get some revs out of. I was tempted by it when he sold it, but for the current prices, and a finite amount of funds and car space, there are others that I think I would prefer.

 

I love that M3, I used to have one. But not for $65K. I don't love it that much.