"Rebodies"

There is a specific forum on Ferrarichat titled "Recreations and non period rebodies"

Surely this is where the thread should now be? regardless of who did the work and on what car!

 

Generally those threads have to do with rebodied cars from their original type bodies, to another type. Like an SWB body on a GTE chassis. This is considered a restoration, so the thread belongs here. Not a question of opinion, BTW, simply for the sake of searchability. This is a GTO body on a GTO chassis, so it's a restoration.

 

Then the subforum should be titled "alternative bodies" not rebodies!

This car has been rebodied and not in period..

Plus if a 250 GTE had a GTO body but in period then it should not go in there either?

 

Paul,

The term rebody means different body style. This car has had a restoration that necessitated a new body. It's not a rebody.

Btw find me a 250GTE that was rebodied as a GTO in period. You won't.
Pete

 

re body is a common, non ferrari specific term that is short for replacement body, it does not solely relate to change in body type/style, the existing body that was replaced in period on this GTO has now been removed and a new non period 2016 replacement body fitted.

Ok another example, the breadvan? where would a thread on that car go?

Replacement body fitted in period but not of the type it originally had?

How about 0858? no different to what has happened on this GTO, a more original style of body had recently replaced one that was carried out in period that was not the same as its original

See below, no mention of specifically a different type/style of body, just replacing an old one one with a new one.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

This is what I get when I bump a 3 year old thread lol

 

Exactly.

 

I dont actually think this GTO or any Ferrari based car should go into the subforum I mentioned.

The point I am making by using this GTO as an example is that it is irrelevant as to when a rebody was carried out, if its still a Ferrari under the skin then it should be discussed in the relevant section not dumped into a subforum with non ferrari based replicas.

It should just simply be titled "recreations" the non period rebody part should be dropped in my opinion.

That sub forum was only set up to appease the pedants who have a dislike of radically modified Ferrari's

 

#0858 is not the same as a replica body was built to suit an earlier period of time not as it last left the factory.

This GTO was restored to how it was when it left the factory.

Yes I'm splitting hairs ...

What happened to #0858 is like returning a S2 GTO back to its S1 form if you prefer the S1 looks.
Pete

 

Let's say someone made a thread about a 250 GTE, asking about historic photos etc. They will open it here. If someone mentions that that car has become a SWB replica, the thread will remain here, as the subject is the GTE, and not its fate.

If however someone starts a thread about the SWB replica, with pictures of that car, and then someone mentions that it was a GTE, then the thread will remain in the rebody subforum.

It's a useful way of keeping threads that are about non-original type cars (whether complete fabrications, or new bodies on repurposed different type chassis) outside the forum which was created to discuss original cars.

When a new body is fitted to an old chassis which is of the same type that was originally fitted to that chassis, it's considered a restoration. Usually those in the know will mention the fact the body is completely new. It's still a restoration.

This way it's simply easier for those who are looking for information on a historic car (or type of car) to find information on that specific type, without having to sift through obviously incorrect/unoriginal modifications to the chassis and what is built upon it. It's more reliable this way.

I don't see the usefulness of characterising people after accurate information as Pedants, but the extra click doesn't really take that much of an effort. Nor is the distinction that hard to make.

 

+1

Pete

 

It wont be changed regardless of my views anyway, but those are still my views and I stand by them.

A rebody is exactly what the above Collins definition is, and massaging that to suit an agenda depending on the car in question does not change that fact.

 

The Collins definition is the general definition of the word, but any time a word is used in a phrase or sentence, its interpretation often becomes narrower as a result of the surrounding context. In this case, the fact that the sub-forum is for incorrect rebodies is (for most of us) implied by the surrounding context.

The reason the "period" differentiator is a valid qualifier is because, back then, coachbuilders and coachbuilding were common. On customer request, the factory regularly shipped new bare chassis to approved coachbuilders for custom bodies. Doing this same thing in period, but not from new, isn't much different than ordering it from new if it was done in period by a proper/approved coachbuilder. Of course, those period rebodies should always be tagged as non-original, but they are very different from later rebodies where Billy Bob hacked up the body to make it look "more betterer" or tried to convert one Ferrari model into something it never was.

I think the recreations sub-forum name is fine as is. I guess an alternative name like "non-coachbuilder rebody" might also work. That would place increased emphasis on the quality/appropriateness of the rebody rather than just the date. Date is important too, though -- an attractive, non-coachbuilder, period body mod is part of that car's history now, while making that mod in modern times would destroy an element of that car's history. Neither title is better, and specifying non-period and non-coachbuilder would probably make the title too long.

.

 

You are now adding your interpretation to the word though Peter, every individual on here could have a different interpretation.

Therefore just take it right back purely and simply to the word used and its definition as listed above, no interpretation required, it is totally as written down.

A rebody is a replacement body i.e not the one originally installed, end of. Whether it was done the next day or 50 years later the definition is the same.

If you can find an expanded definition then please list the source.

 

You can talk about dictionaries all you want, the subforum was named by the F-Chat team and refers to their definition of the word, which we have explained a few times in the previous posts. In F-Chat land, non-period rebody means "car wearing an incorrect body for its chassis, fitted years after it left the factory".

The following sticky thread which greets visitors to the appropriate sub-forum explains it best: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/recreations-non-period-rebodies/364788-rules-definitions.html

 

Fchat definition

Non-Period Rebodies - modern rebodies or modifications to an original Ferrari chassis.

This is the definition of a rebody then in fchat terms, which you fully agree with?

Therefore under your own agreed terms the 250 GTO in this thread, based on the above definition should go into that section!

I do not find anywhere on fchat where it officially states that a modern body, if it is as per the original body is then not a rebody but a restoration.

A restoration would be work carried out to the body the car was actually wearing when the restoration commenced, making good damage/rust etc not replacing it completely.

You cannot have it both ways......

 

See post #26. That's how I think it should go. The fact that there are no threads in that subforum of a chassis type fitted with a modern rebody in the correct style lends credence to what I and others here are saying.

Alternatively you could state your case to the moderators. I fail to see how an extra click added or subtracted changes things so drastically, but since youseem to feel that strongly about it, they are the final arbiters of this sort of thing.

IMO the car in question has undergone a restoration, with a complete new body being a part of that restoration.

 

I like clarity, its how I work, this matter is not clear.

Fchat is a private forum, the powers that be can define whatever they choose about whatever they like, that is their prerogative.

However an outsider looking in would not understand the principle being applied here, that is my point.

 

So what % of the original body has to remain for the restoration not to be a rebody?

Paul, you are making unnecessary noise about this; a restoration is an attempt to restore the car to it's former glory and sometimes a new component, ie. engine, body, chassis, etc. is required. A rebody is an attempt to make a car something it never was. Period or out of period is a different story. Out of period rebodies are usually replicas, and done for financial benefit reasons.

It is that simple.
Pete

 

I am not making unnecessary noise at all, I am pointing out facts which don't sit well with a certain blinkered group on this site.

Everywhere else on the planet a rebody is removing one body and replacing it with another, end of.

I even provided impartial proof of this via a dictionary confirmed definition.

In the la la land that is fchat at times though, a rebody is one thing when it suits a certain argument but an entirely different thing when it suits another.

To answer your question a restoration will replace a panel when it is beyond repair, ie damage that cannot be made good or rusted, not replacing entire sets of panels just because someone does not like them anymore.

The 250 GTO in question wore those panels longer than it did the originals, clearly there was nothing wrong with them structurally that necessitated their replacement, it was down to aesthetics alone therefore a rebody.

 

This new body will be part of this cars history.

I assume this 250GTO was Classiche'd, so a new body was required to return it to how it left the factory. Classiche won't certify a car that is not as it left the factory to my understanding.

I have not heard anybody refer to a rebody on any car site unless the body is dfferent, otherwise it is a new body. So yes the dictionary might say one thing, but to car people a rebody is a different style of body, not just a new body.
Pete

 

On a chassis based car a rebody is replacing one body with another, all very simple, even my granny gets it.

On a unibody replacing one bodyshell with another is a reshell.

Its been that way in the car industry since the horseless carraige, well except on fchat!

I have reshelled countless cars over the years, they are always known as a reshell not a restoration! try and take that line and people simply laugh at you.

 

I enjoyed the link. Thanks for posting...T

 

^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^

You can't take the pure dictionary definition without considering the context in which it was used. This is true for all words in all instances. Paul, your experience of having reshelled several cars with the same body is a highly atypical experience and is not what most car people think about they hear the word "rebody". You even used a different word ("reshelled") yourself to describe that activity. Arguably, the word "reshelled" might imply replacement with an identical body type. The word "rebody" does not imply that to most car guys.

The sub-forum is a gray differentiation anyway. There is no way to draw that line perfectly in the few words appropriate for a forum title, but I think the current name is about as good as you can get. One way to clarify it further would be to add words below the title specifying exactly what does, and does not, belong. AVSforum (AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews) uses text below the title to clarify because there are so many categories that are potentially overlapping. Using something like that might add clarity for the recreations sub-forum, although I don't really think it's broken as is.