355 Header Rebuild / Replacement | FerrariChat

355 Header Rebuild / Replacement

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Blink355, Dec 1, 2005.

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  1. Blink355

    Blink355 Karting

    Dec 1, 2005
    67
    Saint Louis
    I just acquired a 1995 355 with 77k Miles. The guy I bought the car from & his mechanic said that the car would need a new set of Headers. I was wondering if there is a way i could be sure of this before I decide to have the headers rebuilt or purchase an aftermarket set? Anyone out there with a 355 replace their Headers? I know that the OEM Equipment seems to be a common problem on this model. Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Brian
     
  2. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
    3,059
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Sean F
    Do they leak? If not, don't replace them. Lots of people have had problems with them, lots of people have had ZERO problems with them.

    What did the PPI say about the headers?
     
  3. Blink355

    Blink355 Karting

    Dec 1, 2005
    67
    Saint Louis
    I can't really tell if they leak. Isn't the PPI some type of inspection? I never had one done. Do you have a 355? Have you replaced yours?
     
  4. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    2,176
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    David Castelhano
    #4 Bertocchi, Dec 1, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There is a fundamental problem with the fuel delivery system in the 1995 355s with 2.7 Motronic. It porduces a lean burn condition in many of the cylinders particularly cylinders #3 & #6. The lean burn causes very high exhaust temperatures. Eventually the standard headers fatigue and crack.
    I have done ten years research on thi stopic and have found some remedies. First of all the Ferrari headers, fabricated by ANSA, are made from 300 series stainless steel that is not seamless tubing. In colaboration with the folks at Metalcraft Industries we developed headers which I believe are the best on the market and superior to the ANSA pieces. They are made from 321 aircraft stainless steel and are seamless. The wall thickness is also thicker. They are ceramic coated and last.
    Second thing is a new fuel delivery system which ensures adequate and equal delivery to every cylinder eliminating the lean condition that causes the high exhaust gas temperatures. I have found this to be the cure!
    The headers used on later 355s and even 360s are identical in construction matriels to the 95 355 and they don't fail? Not the headers is it?
    Send me a pm if you'd like more info!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. RossoCorsaItaly

    RossoCorsaItaly F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 9, 2004
    4,540
    LA | Austin |Miami
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    #5 RossoCorsaItaly, Dec 1, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey, I'm Kevin from NAPerformanece. If you click the link on the bottom of my signature you can learn more about my headers. Note that we're backed up right now though about 3-5 weeks due to alot of people replacing their manifolds during wintertime. I attached a picture.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. GordonF355

    GordonF355 Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2005
    1,017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    I ordered Kevin's headers and they are being installed this coming Monday on my 97 355 spider. His seem to be the best deal around and the quality looks very good as well according to my mechanic! For the price, you cannot beat these headers.

    gordon
     
  7. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 7, 2003
    1,267
    Beverly Hills
    Just out of curiosity, why does it cost $3000 for headers? And why do we think $3k for headers is a good price? I note volume is a cost factor, but when you can buy nice V8 headers for $200 to $900, is volume that much of an issue? Or is it simply pricing headers for expensive cars and buyers that will pay whatever they're told? If there enough 355 owners that want headers perhaps a company which manufactures headers would run a number of them? There are several such companies here in SoCal.

    http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=headers&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp

    http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=headers&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp
     
  8. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    O.K. this makes me sick. My understanding is the new 355 headers do not melt in the 2.7 motronic cars despite a ferrari switch to 5.2 motronics. There are many possible reasons for the switch but fixing a design problem is not one of them. When was the last time Ferrari universally supported it products? They are like microsoft. While the original 355 header may have been whatever stainless steel there are all kinds of manufacturing problems that could cause early failure none of which may be due to the 2.7 motronics. If you sniff the individual exhaust ports at the manifold test points on a properly working 2.7 motronic I bet everything is just fine. Try it for yourself and prove it to yourself. A manifold leak will simulate a lean condition and help early header failure. Why buy new hearders when a welder can weld up the hole for about 15 bucks? Just find a good welder who TIG welds aluminium. A guy who does aluminium can do stainless all day long in his sleep. Heck if you send me your header I'll weld them for free you just pay for shipping to and fro. I'm not a pro but I have welded many a Ferrari exhaust system.
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    A couple of other facts. 5.2 355's burn out headers too, just not as often.

    What do 348, Mondial t, 355, 456, 512TR, and F50 have in common? 2.7 Motronic.
     
  12. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    Hmmm? Most of the headers I've seen with this problem are far too fatigued to do a simple patch job. Ferrari is not the only one. We have a Diablo GT with the exact same problem that turned into a blow torch and melted the right hand bank wiring harness fusing the injector wiring causing all injectors on that bank to run wild before the car was towed into the shop. Sure I could scab it back together with either my bad boy Miller Syncrowave 350 or my bad boy Lincoln Mig, but it's my opinion it's a waste of time and money as the metal has collapsed under fatigue and as soon as you weld that, it's going to crack right next to it so you just keep welding. These things have heat cycled so much that the metal has turned redish/orange iron oxide look like when you over heat something with a rosebud torch.

    I personally don't think it's a "lean" condition that's causing this problem. I think Ferrari used too thin a wall thickness instead of 16 ga or better and not the right alloy S.S. . It looks and welds like 304. But 321 or heaven forbid the pricey Inconel would have been the better choice. The aluminum heat shielding is as much the culprit too as it holds the heat in to protect the car and still gets so hot it melts the drive axle boots even though they are shielded too. If I owned a 355, I'd cut the shielding off right off the bat, and have them ceramic coated inside and outside as preventive maintenence. This will extend the life of the header and reduce engine bay temperatures as much as 60%. It seems that even Thermotec header wrap is better than the aluminum boxes stuffed with glass that hold water and don't help in that respect as well.
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    There is no question that new headers are the way to go but these are not chevy mass produced headers of high quality and 1/8th the price. These are low volume low bidder headers like everything else Ferrari. That melted Diabo wiring loom is as much a design problem in the loom placement in the Lambo as the header. However, the way these cars are driven many less than 2000 miles a year a patched header could last 10 years! The cost is obviously pennies when you are a guy like me or a few bucks if you have any mechanical skill at all to remove only 8 nuts per side or a couple hundred bucks if you are totally clueless but can fill a gas tank yourself. Also, you would be suprised at how long some questionable patches can hold when a good TIG welder is used and the welder has some skills. If you want to get fancy you could even exterior sleeve high heat points in a header such as the immediate exhaust port or a bend and even that is cheaper than a new header.
     
  14. Dino

    Dino Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    116
    San Diego
    The Ferrari original header has dropped in price to $2600 per side now. I went with that when my right side failed at 13k miles on my 98 355 F-1.

    I wonder what empirical data we have on how many miles the various replacement headers last? In other words, has anyone tested a replacement header (QV, or otherwise) to 30- 50k miles?

    regards,
    Dino
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    Thats great to hear but there are 2 styles of headers and they are not interchangeable. The early style has always been more expensive....and more prone to failure.
     
  16. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 9, 2004
    4,770
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Vern
    I replaced my headers over a year ago(before kevin's product was avail.) with factory parts. I removed the shielding and had them ceramic coated they have been fine so far. Regards, Vern
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    Someone smarter than me should set you guys up a 355 header poll. You should poll how many miles the header fails and where it failed. If you have consistent data you may be able to come up with a non-replacement = cheap fix. For example if the break is just a crack and it always happens at the manifold flange to tube jucntion you can fortify these areas before they break.
     

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