355 factory headers | FerrariChat

355 factory headers

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Llenroc, May 9, 2006.

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  1. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    Vern
    For those who might be interested thought I would share with you guys info on an experiment on ceramic coating factory headers on my 355. First off the only reason for doing what I did here was because at the time there were not any aftermarket headers made in the US yet and I didn't want to use the rebuilt technique from England because I wanted the shielding to be eliminated and wasn't sure how they would look pieced together. Anyway a little background, I had a bad right hand unit, holes blown thru it. Replaced it with a new factory header removed shielding and coated it. The leftside was ok to the point of only having a few heat stress points(deformed slightly I guess for lack of better discription) no cracks no holes you could barely see a problem. Wanted to still use it to see what would happen after it was coated and used and didn't want to spend anymore money on what was/is a bad factory piece. Kevin(NAPerformance) was just talking at the time of doing headers and thought this would be a good bandaid till his were done. It has been 16 months and about 3500 miles and the ceramic coating has stayed where its supossed to. Even the original header on the left side is doing fine. Additional info the car is CH car and has the race exhaust on and no cats, the entire system is coated. I'm not really sure now if the shielding is the original problem or what, again there are no cats so that could effect heat retention too. I realize not much time has gone by here but I didn't think I would get this far. Regards, Vern
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Vern, is the ceramic coating applied inside, outside, or both to the headers?
     
  3. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    From observing threads, and talking to many 355 owners, the typical time for burn through on the exhaust manifolds is between 14,000 and 21,000 miles. 3,500 miles is not a significant enough amount of miles...
     
  4. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Hi Dave, I was aware of that too, on the burn thru, that is why I left the original left side header in place, the car has 14,500 miles on it now. I was concerned about the leftside more than the right, since the right is a new piece and not enough time on it, thinking that maybe by now the tubes on the leftside might show some deterioration and the ceramic coating might start coming off but, not yet. This is kind of an irrelevant experiment because the factory headers are junk as we all know and most folks would not want to go to the trouble of removing the shielding and powder coating, I just happen to like the exposed tube look. Since we now have Kevins headers and others it doesn't make any real difference now. So anyway just a report on what was going on not meant to be anymore than that. Regards, Vern
     
  5. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
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    Dosn't the lack of cats:

    1) Reduce the weight on each header (the cats are about 4kg each)

    2) Reduce the temps as the cats run at 450-600deg

    The guys who work on my car reckon that going to pipes increases the life of the headers a fair bit.
     
  6. Harmonyautosport

    Harmonyautosport Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2006
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    #6 Harmonyautosport, May 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Kevin from NA performance would know best on this since he solved the F355 problem. But from the 360 design its easy to see some key weak spots to the Ansa design. The manifold tubing is paper thin causing it to release alot of heat, but then its trapped in the heat shield causing it to cook itself. Then they put a Precat right in the collector that slows down exhaust flow creating even deeper heat soak and cooking the manifold. Ceramic coating the tubing and removing the shielding is a good start but there are still alot of flaws. Best bet is to just buy an aftermarket set.
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  7. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Not sure which year you have, but on 1996+ cars with front/rear O2 sensors, I'm not sure how you'd ever get pipes to run properly. I'd expect the poor ol' Check Engine Light to get a workout,

    Test pipes for a 95 car look look like this (single O2 bung):

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?cPath=175&products_id=261290
     
  8. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Answer to 1 and 2 would be yes. Heat would be the obvious reason for the headers to not hold up. And that is the problem, Ferrari didn't use the correct stainless tubing to hold up to what they were subjecting the header to. ie; cats and the shields. Proof of that would be looking at the 348 and the 360's headers they seem to be fine and are subjected to a similar environment. Since I have removed two contributing heat retention factors from my headers it may be that mine will hold up but, 99% of the owners of 355s are not going to be able to do what I have done. Again my post was just information for those who might care. regards, vern
     
  9. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
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    Got a 98-355, with pipes and all 3 sensors in place - no problems, no lights (Euro car). Chaps who work on mine said they rarely get warning lights with pipes fitted, and they have been Ferrari specialists since the early 70's so know their onions so to speak. Maybe the pipe/light issues are related to US spec cars?

    Vern, as always, appreciate your comments - just thinking aloud really.
     
  10. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    You'll have to mod the main cat to take a pre and post cat O2 ala 355.

    Sorry, misunderstood. On that you would have to go to an O2 sim.
     
  12. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

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    I thought the logic was:

    "If 2nd O2 sensor is way hotter than 1st O2 sensor then the heat is coming from the Cat - SLOW DOWN".

    As Vern says maybe the US ECU also has a:

    "If 2nd O2 sensor roughly= 1st O2 sensor then - UNCLEAN".
     
  13. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Richard, the second 02 sensor doesn't control the slow down lights there is probe in the cat that does that. It looks different from the 02 sensor its smaller and thinner and would be on the back side of the cat(hotter side). The 2nd 02 is there to check the condition of exhaust after the cat does its magic. If its not within parameters programmed in the ECU than the CEL comes on. I would still assume the Euro ECUs are less senitive to the after cat emissions since they appearently don't get CELs on and the US cars appear to have CELs come on when you remove the cats but still use both 02 sensors. Regards, Vern
     
  14. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
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    Ah, understood. Which suggest that, MAYBE, my 355 will pass a Euro emissions test (for 98) then, someone told me a 5.2 was only marginal with pipes - some pass, some dont - always assuming the tester is deaf of course ;)

    Bit of a give away really come to think of it, "O2 sensor", "Temperature measurement" derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    Thanks for info, good to learn something new everyday.
     

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